1H 2022 Financial Results Briefing

The morning everyone, CICT released this first half 2022 financial results this morning. And we are pleased to have you join us both in person and online via Zoom webinar. A warm welcome to all of you. On the panel this morning, we have Mr. Toni Tan, Chief Executive Officer of CICT Manager. Ms. warm million, Chief Financial Officer. Ms. Jacqueline Lee, Head of Investment. And I'm Nathan here of investor relations. We will start today's briefing with a presentation by Toni our CEO followed by a question and answer session. Please note that this session is recorded and uploaded and will be uploaded on CICT website later.

Now may we have Toni share with us the highlights of CICT's results. Tony, please. Thanks for making good morning everyone. Morning those online. Thank you for turning up today. I think it's a busy period of a lot of without reporting. And like, like why is we an also result this morning? I think for many of you probably have heard me many times I was looked before that this year financial number will look very noisy. So, we have a couple of things we have done. We have developed a project that became a convicted. We have back a few some of the space but then there will be a little bit of time in difference. And hence this year result would be very noisy. So this is a little bit of backdrop that I just wanted to emphasize.

So let me zoom in quickly. I would not probably not drown too much time. I think probably I based on why here in the chapter and I'm sure you have a. A lot of any questions beyond all these does publish. These are easy to relate to. And obviously we tried to answer as much query as possible. So, perfectly this first half result is a process combination of things that we have done over the last six nine months. We look at some adjustment to our portfolio. We did some divestment last year with one draft street was completed in December. And then we also saw. Jake Hill was completed in March.

We went to a transaction acquired three Australian assets in December last year. Two of the assets was completed late first quarter. And the final one was when he completed almost towards the end of June. So this gives you a little bit of backdrop. Some annoyances that we come across in the number. At the same time, we have also competition of somebody projects. Namely, like 21 CQ, there was complete the last year starting to see some contribution. Given that there'll be a bit of. Period where the. A quarter mandatory. We will start to get. Some income coming from second quarter onwards. And then we are also a complete.

CapitaSpring. Completion was last year in November. And gradually we're filling up the space quite nicely. See in the slide. So today we are almost 100% few. Right. Just left one you need to. But then there'll be a time in the place. Because way hangover 10 and it's very stuck rocking. The revenue. But then they won't have to be out period where there will be revenue recognition. But then there'll be no corresponding rent paper until the. It'll be. So quite noisy number. But more substantive. Deeply from CapitaSpring perspective. But I think likely we'll come more. Many fully from second half. And really more. Many fully substating from. For day. Three. Similarly, you know, three. As said, we are fired.

And completed a. Two. Yes, that's in. During the first half, but you only really see about three months or so. Of income coming in. We also completely final in Australia. Only late June. So in fact, we have not even accounted for it for this first half. Right. Because it's just too late. It was completed to in six years. So it's kind of noisy. But nevertheless, today the context. I think overall our rental revenue has grown. Of six point six point five percent. I think. Yeah. And NPI has also blown. But then translate to DPU. I think of course you see it's a quite much no improvement for 80%. Overall from operation number perspective.

I think it's been very healthy. It seemed quite nice. I believe, including a. Back feeling of space is more together by some of the major tenants. You know, gradually we have. Secure community. So. So for you, why is this going up to about 93.8. That takes into account. Those three newly acquired sets. Sorry, I didn't mention. We also have to take in. Seven year, Robinson, which is now renamed as. Capital Sky. So corresponding company in April. So we see about two. Two months or so. But I think I'm contribution. So put it all together. And we see about four million. The. A little bit to 93.8%. They can look how Saudi assets that would require some time to rent.

But especially those new little quiet one. For me, retail perspective, I think the. We're saying quite nice. I believe no, I think probably not. Surprise to many of you who have since. The other peers result. Retail needs. quite nice uplifts, but really from second quarter onward, where the uplifting of the key measures, as I mentioned, was lifted. I think that helps a lot. Downtown, not surprisingly, outperforms the urban more, given the partly because of lower base, but also the fact that I think there's a little bit more panel with the help, some tourists that are tripling in. So we're seeing a nice uplift in the downtown more.

But now that the less urban more so is the little bit of lift, given that now the dynamic option is wider, and there's more restrictions, you know, more traffic-wise, also seeing the nice uplift as well. Secure AI we announced two days ago, and there's something shouldn't be new to all you. You know, I've been telling you that we need to do something about it. We want to increase this asset. You know, it's been very heavy, focused on nightlife, heavy, party, you know, and somewhat associated with the kind of positioning. We think in the long run, to be more sustainable for rent perspective, we need to widen the trading hours, which is why we start to introduce a trade that will bring in their craft.

At the same time, we tend to call a limit of clock key that's important, as we also well know, but you know, importantly, well, no, well, well, I will continue to be important attraction for tourists and people who want to have good time and night as well. So we brought this zone into three areas. Riverfront warehouse, the Q riverfronts are a little bit of focus on the FMB. So Q, high energy area, that's where people party in the zoopers day there, around that area location. And then the warehouse is probably the main transformation. Cara UIC are multiple shopping needs. We're going to live a little apart internally. You'll see some nice skylight. Hopefully there will be one major draw from people from all around the world and today's Singapore as well.

And it will fit you quite nicely. Hopefully by the time the project can be connected here, it's completely in 20, then it will be five to six. There will sort of bring the food into the face and integration nicely with the liberal family, a little bit of the living family, but also element that's important for a nice lifestyle. So today we have reached about 70% of pre-com currently we are about 70% of delicious room and we have challenged that slowly with the single as the least expired. But as it went, they fit into the timing of the AI we'll move them to the limitation. So there will be a little bit of adjustment going forward. The work will start in tech order.

In next month or so, so there will be a little bit of adjustment from the occupancy perspective and where as this in color, we will potentially be stay on but they may be relocated to other locations. So stay tuned. Physically you're here, you can pop in as a when is, I think you'll stay open throughout the one year or so and I'm just gonna move. Let's move. Jem. Thanks. Thanks. So, Raphors City, I think, most of the work is on track.

We are progressively filling in the AI space, starting new offerings, including Raphors City of Illinois. I think we are continuing to bring in new exciting brand to lead physician and strengthening the position of the training. But Raphors City, I think, stay tuned because we are entering to almost the final phase of the actual work. Progressively we will be handling over to tenants. For more time and perspective, we hope to target majority of the tenant to be operational by what the period which is where the high season or shopping. Hopefully by that, we see more influx of tourists coming to Raphors City as well. So having said that, I mean, retail has been still nice

up-lived given general sentiments. Been more positive than what you will hear a child from one to go. We hope to continue to be able to bring new exciting brand as including new to market this month. So this is Raphors City I mentioned. You see quite a few of brands here. This is a little bit, I know I alluded before, we want to go a little bit, a notch of two higher positioning wise. This representation of the different categories, new D-Health fashion across, we secure quite good names. And hopefully they'll be a make anchor that will help to focus on the leasing forward here. So that link is just a little bit on about the

core-fact flex strategy, which will replicate, I think over time in our other properties. So I think we try to experiment in capital screen especially, where we actually call partner with TWP. So TWP is both a talent with us, the Occupy and White Bull flaw. They're also managing to flow for us. And we think that this is probably a potential going trend, especially many companies now adopting core flex, a higher arrangement and not being able to cater for pick and troup period where they may see changes in the mind-ball space. So TWP managed the two floor moles.

I think the thing that's taken on very well, so far we're very, very pleased as of now. I think the space is high like this, but I feel already. And that's sort of fitting into that narrative to talk about before. And we have the same talent that's actually secure, talent-see with this building, but they need it immediately. But because of the construction, well, the development, the space in time, this flex-see space comes in very handy. Or within the same building and it's like black and black higher for which. We're also going to potentially rule out, and then we are working through our two, three assets that we've been doing, an area quality of Australia to rule out such strategy, space meeting,

such demand will be to base. Many companies are very careful about how they look at their footprint and their space requirement. And naturally, I think cost management is important. That kind of flexible space, I think would play in bottom row in their overall strategy. So I think we'll start to look at it a little bit more in the sound of the overseas assets. Overall financial performance, I don't think I want to jump to much and we're talking about it really. We're on stream very fast. If I can see, but it's still going to be predominantly, it's a good white spread. Now you have to open retail and down-flow retail as well as the office exposure.

And overall, I think maybe I'll point out because it's also a point of interest for many of you. All-person assets going up. And you did it, the cost of cost going up. This year we actually rate all the way to the end. It's already more than 90% compared to the last rate that we paid. Last rate we paid was very low rate because we were very contracted when the market market was very at the one most near bottom. So it's just a sub-level. So energy causes something with managed actively to proactively to different ways. Obviously consumption management is important. This is something that we do very actively. Looking at how we could even upgrade the efficiency of our own equipment.

I think these are also things that are in the plan. It's probably not new to you and I mentioned before. Then we also looking at how potentially some we can do with carves on the cost to the service charge. You have to be building by building. It has to be substantiated. So we are going to the actual size. And hopefully we will be able to have some lending. Yeah. So take comfort that we are managing. We're trying to manage this as actively as possible. Or at the same time, I think it's, it was was to really look at some cost that maybe potentially has to be possible. But actually we made very high T. And they did my not a little bit one cent, or the back of a

this substantially contributed from the divestment project. Financing wise, I think this is more or less is done. Maybe they'll in turn pass on a little bit more, it's some questions. We actually push back push out. Look at if you recall, then it's going to be treated in the form where much higher power. So we managed to push back Saudi, well, not sure what respect. We forward forward extension, Saudi, financing a community tree and for that down the road so that we have a little bit more management. And that was you probably see that as a result in the average road duration,

so I extended. Just some snapshot leverage going on a little bit on the back of competition of Saudi projects. Some acquisition went down 40% Hash grade moved out a little bit, 81% or 85% will move a little bit. I think we were fortunate without either position to do that because we started with a very high fix. Today, the market dynamic in the interest rate front has been very, very volatile. I think we need to have very active management on the interest rate side. And that across some flexibility in the protection because we started off with a very high fix category. Interest curve will quite flat around the 4.1.4 to do there

but average term maturity, you understand the burden. So that's something I mentioned before. Overall, the average cost of that each half of about 10 basis point. So this is our own catch much. So portfolio occupancy, now you're 3.8% is slightly from 93.6, I think. Yeah. But of course it's mixed back. If we go down further down, where else I think my passion a little bit now is a little bit this one would not too much exposure and a little bit later on to be a lot portfolio. So maybe it's just connected this one. So this is the next back,

three point including the usual quiet one where Saudi assets are low. Also as screw, Saudi is where early in a quiet advanced negotiation, especially Capital Tower, normally we're looking at hopefully can near that soon or is taking longer than expected or the finer size. But I think we are quite close to it. Let me zoom into retail, 96.5% occupancy. The country is quite flat. Last quarter we reported was 96.6%. I think, yeah, slightly lower. But then I think it's nothing to be allowed now. Overall, I think trading has been very healthy.

We've seen a very nice uplift in the talent series, 16 almost close to 16% for the first half. Stronger performance from the downtown really uplift than the Southern, but still also track quite decent kind of uplift. Overall, you continue to see rental in the ocean narrow now. Now we are again, I mentioned we are progressively adjusting the rent and you see the reverse as narrowing already. In fact, yes, imaginary term positive or downtown here. So this is a breakdown of all the different assets. Your property is a main drag. And then of course, some AI space within electricity we looking out.

If you look at it, overall if the clap key space is to be removed, we are looking at closer than 8.4% of the same occupancy. Reversion attached a little bit earlier. There is a continue narrow down. If you compare the first quarter we reported a maximum effect second quarter is tracking quite nicely. Almost flexed. So the downtown more is almost flexed. The second quarter, South of the world is higher. 1.4% overall we're looking at about 0.5% in equity. But I think we're not already. Yeah. For folio weightage of the little bit nothing to show about 2.1 years manageable. Look at maybe the sales number.

I think I mentioned earlier, second quarter has been very strong. On a portfolio, in fact, hopefully we crop 22% on a better, of course a lower last year with a 50% improvement from downtown more and down the side. We were seeing about close to 13% in high off the car range. Yeah. Not surprisingly, the trade that benefit the most during the period where they were heightened, safe management measures in place. That's been lifted up. No, those trade were still a little bit reversed. So we see supermarkets still has come in a little bit home financially back up people more back to the office again. So it's not surprising.

And on conversely, the trade has been suffered a lot more during the period. Same period. I say a nice uplift a bit more. People start to shop again for their own, the clothing, the shoes, the bags. So the department of soils have been done doing quite well. And I'm not surprisingly leisure. The club scene is getting reactive again. It would have time to clap here and I have seen the crowd's been pretty decent here. So it's not surprising at all. On office front occupancy, overall is 91.9% of what this include in the Austria and overseas has a particularly young. But if you look at Singapore, occupancy on its own, 92.9% is up from 92.3%.

It'll be a little bit easier here. If we also notice, I mean, the main draft down is obviously the capital that we're still looking to fulfill that. Including those space dimensions, we are almost nearly there. We're looking at potentially adding an hour that is present in from many occupancy hopefully in the next one or two quarters. On the overseas side, German side, pretty stable Australia, which has to over, a little bit declined in six, six G, government street on the back of a non-renewer, but we have already begun to look at that feeling. But we also want to take the opportunity to upgrade some of the part of the assets,

which is leading a little bit data, especially the lift. Part of our acquisition account was to really look at this asset and bring up to a higher quality and bring a building than it is today. So a few areas that we had planned in our investment from the K-packs perspective, we decided to bring forward, especially since the floor area that the tenants are beginning to bring it back and do a nice uplift. We've seen some traction also in the entire art film. We have filled up over 6% or so, and we are also in discussion with a few other prospects. Hopefully you can see improvement in the next few quarters. One more way, Miller, let's say join that Joe with Mervak,

we completed when he did this next June, so we are working through the plan. But that's also being incorporated in strategy that we talk about in CapitaSpring. Hopefully that will bring that quality or the tenant in the middle of the bank. This is one that talk about a lot, a lot of no-cometer actual. It's a coming gap, so this is more for your own number projection. Progressively, we'll be handing over space, and that's where I think the accounting will start, and then once the field appears over, you see the cash flow coming in. This is something I mentioned earlier, so I don't need to talk too much with it. Where else I will talk too much? Experiment, see the say I think

with this year, we're brings in surprise, I think saw the higher risk experience area we are able to impact cross-diversion. So second quarter effect on the property has achieved a post-diversion number. Yeah, so these are more for info, I want to go to much. I think we've also seen, it's probably not new to you guys as well. Hospitality tracing is probably the major beneficiary in terms of this reopening and reopening team with the hotel risk, and I'm going up quite aggressively. Occupancy are so pretty up quite nicely. Second of the year will be a very busy calendar year for the social event,

where we at least get feedback on the hotel that the mukings are below bus, weddings and conventions are starting to come back. And of course you have to highlight like the F1 or these are and the National DSPI is seeing a very nice encouraging kind of event. And in fact, the ref part for the hotel is a risk of us $300, which is quite happy. We'll have quite a bit for them because we type part of this period where we did a bit of the instructor in the rent with the hotel was to bring, that what we did for retail, we done a fixed increase of their book components who were enjoying it, and they'll be able to live from the bare book for the now. Outlook, something I mentioned before,

we had to be a job and very proactive managing of course. Interested is like, of course, I think we may have our own deal about interest rate, we'll panel. But we start off with a very good thing, very high fixed, very high fixed hatch position. We've seen a new curve shifting all the time. As we speak today, we probably see some in-version already happening probably deep but not. We will take advantage of that and aquacotically and try to minimize. I think overall the interest rate is expected to work. We've been fair for the last five to 10 years we've enjoyed and now she's like, we're able to get, even a 10 year money for 2% no, these days you can't get any more.

10 year money or any, you'll be lucky to get maybe high trees, even maybe slightly around 12% or even. But I think the era of Outlook interest rate is over the reality, but we're trying to manage as much as possible. Overall, I think we should expect the average cost of that hedge on. This quarter is about 10 basis point, but as when we find some of the aspiring you see some new stuff, the hedge up as well. Okay, so I've stopped here and we're happy to hear the questions of the year. So I'm gonna go. Thank you, Tony. It was me. Thank you, Tony. Before we start the Q&A session,

I just, just some notes. So please note for those of you who are present in this room, please raise your hand and then we will hand a microphone over to you. Hold on, let me finish this. Let's just, never those joining us online. These type of questions in the Q&A box and we will ask your question out for you. So yes, Marvin, you can have the first question. Yeah, Marvin from JP Morgan. Maybe you can go to the slide 34 in terms of the cashflow timing. Pretty cool. 34. Yeah, I guess one. Yeah, just trying maybe help us in terms of modeling. How do you see the actual occupancy hitting

for these three buildings by end of the quarter and maybe four quarter? Yeah. Okay, the cashflow and cashflow impact. Yeah. The first and the third one probably very close to commutant. Very close to commutant. The six battery vote, we have a couple of views that we are looking at. At the same time, we are also progressively taking back space to upgrade to the data's fire code. I mean, this is a agreement we had with the SCDF or not as a weather major advisory, we need to basically do the catching up with the latest fire code requirement. So there will be a big timing difference.

We hope by end of the year, we are aging closer to maybe low 90%. This confirmed that ages and CapitaSpring get close to commutant by year and that quarter that took the quarter and of the quarter how do you see that halfway between or? Or because of the fourth quarter. Also the fourth quarter because I've fed out on rent free and both. Okay. Maybe turn to the retail tenant sales. Maybe give us some sense of how does it compare to pre-COVID and the occupancy costs. So give us a sense of how hard you can drive the rents going forward. Okay. occupancy costs many healthier in a overall as a portfolio of 17% so I think we are in a very healthy range.

Compared to pre-COVID, sub-COVID is higher. Naturally, I think we're looking at about five over the cent, they're about higher than pre-COVID as an overall basket of retail, as a basket of dollars, how we're slightly down and about 5% is down, lower than pre-COVID. So I guess the quarter downtown could get close to pre-COVID in pre-COVID. So okay. I'll leave to other people. I'll ask questions. Thank you, Marvin. It's Jen. Hi, this is Tanchon here. Just one question on sizeable acquisitions. I mean, given where gearing is how are you going to balance between making the acquisition

a creative and also maintaining healthy balance here? Yeah. So there's no magical bullet. I mean, all the struggles we have to look at different options. When we, it's no different from any kind of transaction, we've done different combinations from a simple debt finance to a combination debt and equity. And then also obviously also debt equity. We've a little bit of recycling a capital. And finally, also looking at partner. So I think we've done a different form of combination. I think we just have to explore what's the best way to do it.

And it's all about timing. So let's say a good partner, whether the timing fits my slimo. So it's all about all this variable that you kind of control at a point time when you look at it and this specific question you've done all this before. So we'll explore the best way to do it. Can I follow up? How was the next limit of gearing your value to go? In this I think we mentioned many times for the plus minus around there is something very manageable. During the fact that I think of possibly driving that step performance over time asset value will help. Carpet part of it. We also quite need to know the fact that the interest rate is also

rising. So we want to strike the right balance. But 40% something we feel is very manageable. They're about plus minus. Ideally you give a little bit more than we've done. So if you want to see the portion of the opportunity, very opportunity strictly, then a lower gear is definitely helpful for you to react faster. But nevertheless, I think we will manage. Thank you. A class. Hi, Nicholas from Credit Suits.

Just want to ask in terms of, I guess when you look at the portfolio and potential divestments, which are the assets that would be on the periphery of non-core that you could possibly look at. Or even you've already kind of started receiving more interest on. And then the other question I had was just on TWP. You talked about six battery road and CapitaSpring. Just want to understand how the economics work for that. I guess they are operating the space for you. You'd have to pay them some fees. Yeah, just any details you have on how the income works. So first question is the

we naturally, I think, look at the opportunity. I think we also concurly look at our portfolio constraint. I think it is a journey. I think I mentioned it was a journey. Sometimes it's about when we'll be the right moment to do it. You have at the bottom line, okay, something that potentially, if there are other alternatives that we can do yet. Otherwise, there's no hard reason. And that is so compelling that somebody gave you a mind-blowing kind of thing. There's no way we're going to run the asset to that kind of extent. Then that would be a moment that we may consider seriously. So, but nevertheless, it may also trigger sometimes

where you look at investment opportunity, the surface and the fun is so interesting. And perhaps we look at within our portfolio. This would be a potential better deployment to capital than current one we're putting. Then they may another trigger point. But safe to say, overall, as we are doing, I think we position ourselves quite clearly. It is the functional revision related to a really vast, in a long run, in a long run, in generating assets. I mean, that's the mandate we have. And there's something, all the different authorities looking at us to fulfill the role from MAS or MOF or RAS. We have to be very careful.

We are not in the business of doing trading. We cannot be the business doing the business of trading. So, this is a little bit of context. Naturally, what kind of candidate will be put potentially over time we feel that it wouldn't fit so well. It's about timing, right? Think that we feel that maybe we can't really max out anymore. We can't scale up because the limitation where regulatory rehabilitation, that could be one candidate. Other candidate would be things that doesn't fit into our mandate geography wise. But then, is it the right time? You see, is it not? Does it, is that compelling enough for you to act now that is not, that we will have to be a bit

until the time is right, that we can do it. So, these are January 2, era. We constantly try to see, we put further, bring more productivity and value into any specific asset. Whether it's true, very simple AI or it will very extensive kind of regional movement possibility. And eventually, if we come to the analysis that as fast possibility is not available, then potentially it could be a candidate as well. Give a little bit of context. Then on the TWP economics. So, by last year, the biocperformance in San

in treatment, we do have a client base fee that we pay. Normally, it's not a lot, but we send advice to a performance site. So, there would be certain target whether to achieve beyond that little function. That's more or less about the client. Okay, how much space are they gonna take up? Two floors. I don't have two floors in the hotel's ring. Things six battery, we'll pay a lot of floors. Thank you, Nicholas. Okay, we got a range of us. Great job. Hey, good morning, Tony and team.

Thanks for the briefing. I have just a few questions from me, I think, for us that on the office front, what's your outlook on reversions? I see that you're expanding rents. I was also creeping up. How strong is the office market for you to push the rents? So, good question. I mean, this is something that we also asked of self-right. I think we've all done momentum. It's been decent given the context of why you're around the world. Companies are also starting to need out recising. But overall, Singapore still stands pretty good shape in general. The supply situation is not overbearing. So, you have a Libya supply advantage. And the context of whether the demand is going to be aggressively when the context,

I think that one, a lot of, we can see. But new setup, coming to Singapore, I think it would be interesting. There's something we will, we'll attract, because they're given what's going on in the world. I think this is quite a natural good location to be in. Subsector, you will reach here in the media. It's reported by the Federalists, family officers, I mean, they are requesting trying to come here. So, those are occupied here in their spot. But big company, I think they'll be very careful, especially, you're talking about whether you want to uproot, or it's just a adjustment. So, we've seen some adjustment.

We're not hearing a major, major uproot. There's some pocket of uproot, but not major major. But they're adjusting to cater for the system that make more sense in this part of what we need, to be able to be able to help them. So, I think the mind will see me fairly reasonable. As you will, the rent threshold, it will be, I think it's a question on industry industry. Overall, I see the impression, it's all going up. We all are talking about, we're just asking what actually we're going up. So, in the context of everything, I think we have to be mindful at the end. We are entering a period where globally, your expectation of a slow line group.

So, that's really a back drop line that we have to bang myself. Do you think rental reversions would mean at high single digit? What the rest of the day? Oh, I think we had a few low-high food which we captured, like this quarter, so it's so anchored that in the remaining of the year, the least-spiring adhesive around, slide the market rate, I think it should be okay. Next year, we look at the slides you have. Next year, we started to engage the T10 and T10. Next year, overall, the experiment average is also not normally Monday. I think it would be okay whether it be a high-high of a reversion. I don't have to appreciate the ball.

And I can only say that what you hear from the consultant, no sign up, which I think very, very strong, and I'm nice number. I'm a little bit more concerned with you, generally I'll be more concerned with you. I feel that there will still be ongoing kind of adjustment, right-size things, some expansion, but then there will be complete we'll still want to the right size because the adopting flexible will reach, right? Then even if you have more and more demand coming in, you also will see how this right-size thing of a dynamic sprayer. So there will be a bit of market that is probably not reported anywhere, but we call the supplement market,

the gray market, there will be attention to this. Okay, my next question is, what do you think of the metadata spot for you? The assessing the metadata spot for you. Well, I'm not interested. I don't know how to do that. If I mention, if I mention, we're not looking at no video, no feedback. Okay, so, it's at least in our home yard, and back on back yard. Our retreat is one of those kinds of things. The, is something we are familiar with, yeah, space we are familiar with, we have the skill, I think we will, that's really just that we think, look at it. You like the assets? Oh, no, no, no. J-I-SUN glasses and minuses.

We will, I wouldn't be too far to make it still in the process, but so, I would say the, there are some interesting elements within the portfolio, but some get, okay. Got it, thanks. Sorry, because there's a full question from the requests that we're linked to, just now what the Richard Asimov is. So I think for the week that we want to question, Asimov, do we see any tricks that there's a scene attrition from office space events? Because I think just now we talk about the least in demand. I really don't, if you're not already in the general news media, some big tech company could don't market and was going to into it. So I think the one is, was shut a little bit.

But these are not big space of people. We don't have big, we in fact, we hardly had any exposure on a control space. So we're okay. Big tech company will be adjusting. The narrative which you know is that they probably have reached quite at the point where they are okay. Those that are already announced that not just space that they need to expand, they will probably be not for a couple years. But again, the business landscape may change operating environment change, it's okay about recession, but then how quickly recession, how short recession it may be a quick phenomenon. Fair enough about slowing out the rate high market rate which I think potentially you're going to rate cut. So all these are things are very difficult to project project

in the next few years. It's just too volatile to have any kind of protection. This part of where we are somewhat sheltered. Hopefully the China and the Moon will play out nicely and not hope that they will be embarking on their own rules of the carbon. And then I think this part of was massive Southeast Asia nation-westers. A lot in financial trading would benefit a lot. That would give a nice uplift in the world to send them in. And that's where I think the money becomes in maybe one or two years down to the market. So there are two to project how they can not. So supply is pretty important.

So supply situation in a way is pretty decent. Some of the oldest stock will come back to market being taken up on a really different one. Asia Tower, the one at the same time, North Shenzhen, where 77 North Shenzhen, and one 70, 70, 70, 80, 50. A few other smaller ones. In fact, small asset money, we didn't visit the size of visual. The fuel can become a more committed power be completely. And there we have the visual, the short power also be completely. So there will be new supply. There will take it up, we will see there will be reintroduced in market. So there will be a bit of competition. And I will say, of course, there are different some markets. And all depends on over time how that the money was stuck up

coming from what sector they'll be going. So in the demand, in the build sector will change over time. Over the last five, 10 years, we have seen a nice boom in the overall tax sector is being going up space, right? Which will potentially the one, or maybe the continuity below who knows. So supply situation, I will say generally been quite supportive for the market. And the rent market, I don't think that's a reason for the point where it becomes a big problem for Singapore. But so I think we still overall would not be in the US. So very expensive place in place your business center. But that's the space I'm sure the government

was quite close to. And in the, have to act, let me use the cloud company market. And that's where competition will go. It's not again. Sorry, we're good to be J first, followed by Brandon and then my kids. Yeah. Hi morning, Tony. I have a couple of questions. My first question is on the overseas portfolio in terms of Australian market. The market seems to be a bit soft in terms of occupancy ramp up. Maybe can you give a bit of current in terms of physical occupancy and I remember there was some rental support for some of the projects. When is it until and what's your outlook? And also in terms of German market with what's happening in terms of German European economy, as well as the existing of the anchor tenant

what's your thoughts on the market. And these two market remains your overseas expansion fancy. With our calendar page. Sorry. Just go to the slide on the portfolio. Oh, for the occupancy. You will manage. Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. So the true officer. I don't think is any surprise for us from the occupancy perspective. We want to expect one by one. I can address it. 100 actor. We don't as set this good quality. 70 over 7 space of only we put. There are some remaining space of your bike.

And during the down period, the previous owner has done a major upgrade. So our job makes sure to do the leasing up when a market turn up for free. We put it and a market demand dynamic is also shifting. A little bit to a little bit like what I mentioned earlier. The the proxy component become increasingly important for the occupying Australian. So from the after perspective, that's where the those are really occupied space that the we operate new will spend some feedback. So finish up the whole work. But overall, it's beautiful. Right. So we hope that leasing will traditionally

Australia is in market in regards to very active because of the late quarter of our quarter. I mean, that's where they are. That's some of the previous. I think that's traditionally the high demand period. So we are watching capital. So we're going to put the asset in the radio position including 66.6. So 66 woman street is a southern part of the CBD. It's an area that will go to multi-year. We read generation because of the focus on the new South via government to. I think they have not been benefiting from the tech run. I mean, Australia January is no major big tech companies.

They want to create that. We see that will shed that. Let's give them a southern part of the CBD. So you want to hear. So 66. Go, then. It's a decent great asset. Right. The party pay, I think it's a good price. When we look at this asset, we knew the few things we have to do is question when we do it. No, now we look at over any coins side with some tenant who decide not to renew. We think that it's time for us to fast-track and upgrade the building, especially with that below floor. And more importantly, I think to position it to ready for the higher leasing period.

We want to upgrade the lift of the lift and beyond. The success of welcoming a rival is not what is not up to part. So something that we work on in the next show of 18 months. Back to 100 after I think when you look at it, this was too asset. There was an negotiated with a previous vendor as a package. And we knew that we would take some time to lease 100 after. We just worry about the rental, higher support. They are not for the next 18 months. They will be able to wrap through. 101 below is a joint venture. So it's a different value. We have don't have 400% control. We join it on the asset. So you'll be a joint managed asset. So both of us are more than actually probably in the respectable period of market.

We will collaborate with them. And we work out strategy to bring the asset to the next level. But the beginning is a premium level asset at not seeing the location. In fact, it's probably the most strategic look in the asset seat on top of the transport network. So we kind of replaced that location in the price of 101 millers, probably it's not the best location in North Union. So we are OK location one once you get a location, right? 89% at the moment. The rest is about whether you're fulfilling the needs of the owned by an economy of the bank. The German market is kind of a market is kind of in a state shop, I think, I'm certain D.

On the one hand, we bought the wall and it's in brand-built, very nice. So you go to Frankfurt, it's busy, right? We don't want to sell a wall and the implication on energy price. And then the implication on the wider economy that Germany may take on the heat is because of the big capital. So market is going to a bit of a way and see. So at the moment nobody's doing anything. It's relatively a quiet market, what is the market. We have two assets. One is in the airport location. So very much driven by the activity and the airport location,

which is picking up. Don't do it. You've read a lot of news, though, in Europe, like travel is picked up very strongly into the point of any kind of a cold. So the aviation industry has been strong. One month, the airport location generally will try when you see a high traffic. Start to come back again. So it's been quite stable. In fact, we are a few places, clicking up. But in the long run, the location, I mean, the airport location, we have to see what position in whether it's right position will get yellow, which is the one in the banking district super prime. So within the CBD, so CBD is a big white spread area. Within the CBD, banking industry is the prime of the prime

of the prime minister. So location wise, high and randoming. So the question is how are we going to fulfill the needs once promised bank they came in Germany? So we are looking at different options, which I mentioned before. It could be a multi-lay option or it could be a single option. Both options are possible. Implication, multi-lay longer downtime. Because a lot more common areas, and all these are going to fix up, right? But then she also longer time from a cash flow of my own view. Because you can't expect everyone to move in the day one. You will be a staggered kind of movement. So that's a multi-lay. But of course, in a long, long run, multi-lay, would probably give you a little lower risk and no single time that is.

Single-lapse scenario, which is not possible. The prospects, much shorter, kind of, a downtime for more construction work for your view. Hip-x-wise, potentially may not be yet too far from slower, probably lower than the multi-lay, but will not be yet far. But a cash flow can be quite, quite immediately. Yeah, so we are exploring both options. German white, I think, no different Australian and almost is market. We need to create a meaningful presence. Two asset is not meaningful at all. So we'll see whether there are any more opportunity, given the very uncertain market environment.

We see how the market movement over there, whether there'll be any adjustment of the cap rate. Historically, very hard to compete. We can never be competitive against the local funds. And in a zero, in fact, negative interest with environment, we have a more speculative movement and really movement. Hopefully that will stop. And that will change our polynomial. So we are watching that. But we are kids to expand, but we also know that if after some time, we can't get a meaningful presence there, then we may exit the phone again. We'll see how it goes from here. Thank you, Vijay. You can turn it. Brendan? Oh, thanks. If we need just three questions, right?

The first one, I'll be regards to the overall acquisition strategy. Given the current environment, will you be prepared to take on DPO-DALUDIF acquisitions at the outset? And then with some rent a growth into improved that subsequently. That's my first one. I don't think, my answer would be any difference in any time. I know it depends on the underlying, as said, you're looking at me. It's so different. We went into Australia, we call it good view. I think the price was good. Give us that bandwidth was the right to. So we can't be saying whether on the day one, we should be looking at a value of value. It's all depends on. First of all,

when you do a, I do since in a row, we have enough time to do your food duty, including your S&P land day one. Sometimes you have a PowerPoint to look at it. So you have to do a judgment. Is this opportunity quite obviously certain a row can claim them? Then potentially, we're not going to be that. Right? But sometimes we know that we see something that over time we know that we can fix it. Then question is how much time we need and how much capacity to point. Then we start to plan on K-PX doing one funny off-front the day on funny must be the download. Then that's where I think the potential question

value should become. Sorry. So I don't think I can give you a simple general statement whether you're the new gift cloud for environment would be. It's all about how you able to lock your look back. What is going to look like the next two or three years? And what are your trends? In our new situation, we have enough time to get our team into do a food S&P land that will be great. But in many cases, you won't have that opportunity to do it. Especially the five years. Okay, I think some would be on your service chart right for the retail properties. Are you able to just increase the service chart like the office ones?

Are they clauses inside? Yeah. I mean, we can't create increase. The host has to make sure you are able to justify your increase of the cost of cost that's going on. But what's impact right? So you probably know the, the fat and the sea agreement, the core conduct that we're going to enter into will be isolated by the laboratory and Dr. In. So as you see, contract is, what is in the front there in the company in the front. To pay $10, you save 150, so the retail equity is rent. If the service chart goes to 170, it's still pay $10. So as this contract no change. That question is on the renewal when you get renewal or bringing a new one, do you want to be upfront about the day to day?

I'm not increasing rent overall, it's due 850 by our service just 170. So that's, that's how you approach it right? Realistically, we have to look at the market sentiment, market condition is question or whether we had the pricing power to do it in the context of the general economic situation, no, the employment situation, the consumption strength, you know, the consumer sentiment. These are all important things to consider. We, we made an old situation where we cannot pass food through the adjustment of rent, as much as we can, we try to like, and tender like ways are also through the own mechanism

or passing money to the consumer. So it's all related. Like, we've got consumer, we've got to pay higher price for whatever for that density. There we are. So this is always about the amount supply. So it is a thing that's all in the time together, you cannot look at it in isolation. But safe to say that good economic environment, yeah, we can go ahead and do it. Hi, you can't remember us here. I have one question on pricing of acquisitions. I was previously used so JQ at sub four year, right? And, and when you look at today's market, it seems that tendency was for sub open moses picking up above pre-COVID levels. And so my question is, do you think, is it fair to say that you will not pay anything

below 4% and, and you've also mentioned that funding causes in ching closer to three, 4%. So how do we balance that? There are also factors that we want to focus on. So a brand of business, a brand of business is a model for, a model for a person. So sub four year with value. And then question is, and then the mentioned, yeah, whatever. So I don't think I want to generalize if we were brought, stroke speed when the, if anything's up for you can do. It can be sub four or medium occupancy at 70%. Yeah. So it has to be on a case by case. But for the 4.5% looks palatable, you think? Yeah. It's the same answer.

It's my case, right? Some deal, 4.5% is not move above. Because it may stop it a bit high, when high occupancy in almost like we always see downside. So you have to look at cases, case by case. But this is a bundle deal, right? It's not like a fair, if you get. Whether it's bundle deal or something, I mean, it has to be on the symptoms. So where are we able to do drive value coming in? Or is not day one, down the road. We have to have a clear idea. Yeah. Okay. I have two more question. One is on, clucky, the 60 million was the ROI and 62 million. What's the ROI on that?

Our, I always say the missing religion. It's a good idea. Okay. But we have to be careful how we define ROI. So we are spending quite a bit of money. Actually, we don't do that. This asset is a high risk, right? I think we are now 34% of it's really to make sure that we feel our obligation as a good citizen. We go back. I'm grading to the system over time, we're in full efficiency. I'm grading the comfort level. So that over time the asset becomes more, because I am quite a fair bit of commentary in some forms. Which is precisely why we try to address the data. No, but after spending this amount,

is it, would we just be able to bring the occupancy back to 100% but passing rates? It's similar to, especially the South Korea 100%. No, but passing rates would be higher as well. Four times yes, it may not be the only. Last question is on the service charge. Do you have idea how much of your portfolio on the retail side you can actually pass through? Like you can actually confit and not saying that. Like in pass through the service charge. So this is actually a result of all this under the core of the debt we can touch with. So the waiver balance when it's renewal or new leases coming in, I think we can translate in the form of whether a service charge or higher rent. So it depends on how you look at it. Because in the 10th of my, today I paid $1,250,

let's say I paid $1,000, sorry, now it costs us $1,700 to operate the more, it was empty most going on. This is sorry, I'm not, when we paid a loss as you see contract, when you come to a new one season of my 70, but used to pay $1,500, $1,700, all in a very strong market environment, you can even double, right? It's the $1,500, $1,700. So we will be very tactful on how you want to touch this. And you will be your case by case, strong performing candidates. Now we are doing a lot of, the LGBT grant is going quite nicely, range from high schools of 15%, I mean, in the portfolio to lower about high percent.

So, and it's all, to somewhere, extent I do how we structure the rent. So I think the overall we, what is more important is to look at the kind of specific, the sales and threshold rate of the particular ratio, and then you need to mean, what's the best way to position with the service chart in the back of your mind. Okay, there it is. I don't need that DBS. Just one question. I'm just looking at the Macad's portfolio now, we should be, a lot of people asking our question here. So in terms of funding rights, right? If let's say you would like to acquire, and let's say you would like to take a partial stake, could we assume that you have also the party capital behind you in this particular acquisition?

Give it up, please. I can't comment, basically, in the process, we're just gonna go ahead. That's why I say a lot of people are speaking on behind me. But we're looking at, I think it was a report that, yeah, we can just acknowledge that we are looking. And I only mentioned some of this is an okay, so, you know. But. Thank you. Sorry, just because it's related. Let me just ask a question. I think it's also about the, just not what we've discussed, but I think more broadly this person would like to see more, who would like to know what is our comfort level with our current portfolio asset composition. So because I think this question, I also talk about the MacArthur's portfolio and all, but it's more how we wanna look at how we comfortable with the current asset composition. I mean, because if we buy more retail,

then we'll be more heavily on retail or as such. Yeah. So this question, we have different answer in different point time, right? Which is why this whole thing about a more balanced portfolio that pacify users and doing adjusts when market condition changes. I mean, we have blood in our stream. The retail and office, and this is not as a portfolio. So we wouldn't say we want to avoid anything specific. One we do like is a product that has got more on its own defensive mechanism. There is a more a, makes use integrated

where naturally the component will self-inforce each other within in the long run such that, such as that would be more resilient and standard one. You can see standard has a time. It may not be the best outperformal in any sector run, but I think it could be a long run, a more stable and more resilient asset that will be fit into the portfolio of a really. So in general, I don't think we want to cut that nice for me. I think when we did the merger, it's so happened, it's quite closer about almost one day each. And over after two years faster when we are fired, the office of the office of all that is going on a little bit after the completion.

But then that's because now the office cycle seems to be the favorite, but things may change over there. So I don't think we are very at no stake about how we're quite no see about how things will shape our overtime. We only know that answer will be different today, maybe three or five now, maybe different. But generally, I think a more integrated defensive asset on its own will be something more desirable. And which is something that we are looking at human overseas. And overseas also picking up this trend. We are beginning to see more component across the different market, different kind of component. We're seeing like rental market, private asset rental market, office, coexist with children.

Singapore is not a rental market, it's not popular. I don't know if the service department, right? But your beginning notice this trend is already taking shape in many markets. Even in Australia, single asset, single asset purpose owner are trying to diversify away by bringing new assets. And in the context where, especially the sufficient land plot where they can cut out the idea of what they're doing. So you seem to try to be really thinking of whether it's Australia, UK is happening. I think good luck, this question. Thanks. Yeah, sorry. Good I hear from the edge.

I have a couple of these general questions. How diversified do you want to be? Because you seem link-reaker into the districts and all that sort of thing. And CLCT seems to be setting away all its malls one by one. So, are you going to stay at one third, makes one third retail and one third office? So that's one question. The second one is, you know, there's a lot of focus on this greening of the portfolio and everyone's talking about ESG. But how does this benefit your investors? Because they're the ones you have to turn to for capital if you want to expand. So that's the two general questions. One more. Okay, there used to be a lot of concern about e-commerce. But this morning we've not had a single question. So I'm just wondering whether there is still a focus, et cetera, on this e-commerce being a threat

to your properties. And the last one is a specific one on, you know, on the balance sheet, because you're in the SGX. I mean, this does not apply to CICT. But the SGX has asked some of these Chinese REITs, you know, because they have a lot more long term debt compared to their short term assets. Because that's the liquid, because it affects the liquidity ratios. And I think CICT has around 1.1 billion of short term debt. I think it expires within one year. If you look at the financial statement, I think they're all empty ends. So I just wondered, I mean, I just wondered what is the market like for this part

of the debt of demand for this kind of debt and what your plans are on that. I did not think that in case I forget a question. Yeah, so the first one is the Apple business. So that's one very general about, you know, all that was fine. That was fine. I think I want green, green. We have a feature also as the main commercial player. Singapore is still here. If you, anyone, we're entirely investors, I think it's no different. Pretty much a post-majir. If you want to look at commercial space in the public, we should be the platform to look at because you have that that is fine space. So commercial now. So commercial, define office, retail. It can be a little bit other component. We've been integrated, but generally I think it's the two larger components still in the retail and commercial.

So that answer the question. Yes, gee, I don't think we can ignore that completely. Although there's a lot of discussion, how does that benefit and of course, there are even whether discussion on funds specific, there are ESG focus and I mean, there's a lot of site-tracked discussion, whether they are a specific charging investors because they're not the premium, right? And ultimately, the number didn't stack up. and they performed the general market. Like the non- ESG stocks that you want to offer. So I mean, these are in the context. But I don't think we can run away from this. The fact that this trend has more continued to be critically important because it's all about resilience

or the portfolio at the end. Right? Yes, investor may have a shorter time, all right, so on three, six, nine, nine, nine, one year. For them to, the demand is financial performance key, right? So he asked many investors, do you think they would, they would never say, yeah, we consider all things, but financial performance still has to be number one. It means they are not prepared to accept a lower return given the fact that the investors are. So it's like the supply chain, they are not expecting a lower return because their investors are also not expecting a lower return. But I think that the enemy is shifting really.

And the low, the, the ultimate end of when the source of money is coming in, whether it's people, generally, people who put money, the mutual funds, and then the mutual fund investor will get who can make money. Right? They are starting to do. So his process is just over the last few years, corporate service. Only these are all big things. Which are a country are taking their position and setting the tone because I don't otherwise nothing. So the country are all setting the two increasing of all setting the tone. So I don't think we can run away. And one glaring example that in fact, we may even want to hide them is look at the cost of energy. The cost of energy, child must go,

we are stretching our heads, how to buy a great energy or energy is a cost of understanding of the premium. Today, the amount, the doubt that is so narrow. In fact, at some point in time, this image you put, you lock yourself in and do a great energy. So I think the dynamics will change over time. So I don't think we can run away. I mean, that's only the E, of course the S and G would be very important. In the context today, I think S is still going to be very important. And company talk about it. They talk about it. And they actually are executing it. Flexible work management, the range management actually is really the full view of big part of the S element of the employee. But how that should translate to the dollar

and says, I cannot put a number to. I can only say that we want to product to be easier so that you are unoccupied. I think that is a place you want to be because they also put the G. Because it could be very binary. Whether you are considered as a location or you are not. It could be as binary as that. And then within the bucket of they will consider the bucket, are you in the front window or your bed? But as and when this momentum takes place more and more demand and user will require that. And I think the sweater dynamic on the economy dynamic issue. Today, honestly speaking, we are more asking tenant, hey, we are all these, but we are all these index. So green satisfy or sustainable.

I would pay 20% more. It's not getting very hard. Very, very hard. Yeah, but the beginning there's some we're practically doing regardless. I say no, we have to fulfill on. So there would be a growing list of end-of-the-fire eventually. And when it comes to the financial institution, I mean, they also been pressured by the regulator to move into green financing. Hopefully we see a lot more savings from costs of boring. Today, my general, if you're talking about few basis point, not, I mean, these days the market moved 10 to 50 in half an hour. Okay, look at the bond market that can move 10 to 50

in one hour. So I should have two, three basis why is nothing. But I think things will take place over time. So very long, long wind answer. Yes, it's important. We cannot ignore that. It's question of how over time we'll do it. We started the brand about our K-PX over time, green K-PX. Long term precisely to take in mind that we know that this financial return is still gonna be important. We cannot be so blind, we say, all are building gonna operate normal, basic class, children's system, when it's only about maybe six, seven years old. What does it make a long sense? Yeah, then this great account decision will come in with

economic and logic and all your practical ideas, sanity work, check, and where to make the judgment. But we are starting to plan the next five to 10 years. They are probably by profit being which other ones do. They're just proud of those that we think is still a bit more on gender. We must understand about the numbers. And surprisingly, you're right. I don't know why anybody knows they are. It's just a trend. Maybe it's very more transparent now in the same more context. The department is that basically important online sales numbers being trending now, right? As market reopen, I don't think it's surprisingly

it all. Way, way, way to land. Today we are about top of the sand. I have no answer. I knew that when things reopen, you see that I'd be up. I think I might mention many times. You see a spike up, but once we open, you see the shell will come back down here. Maybe over around this level. Whether you go back to 70% I don't think so. I think once happy is kicking on your, on your, your, your, your, quite comfortable from a supportive or view and from the comfort and the ease of transaction for you to transact online. I think that would be this. How about Taylor Hardy with Hardy? How did play this game? How did position itself in the context of consumer

who who quite are not stick maybe, you know, about whether they should buy online online. Maybe they want to buy online because it is always cheaper, but not necessarily. But some may prefer to buy online after seeing offline. So then offline becoming important. Next question is material. Say, my offline trivia in work allocation is important to be application. I think this car strategy. Sorry, I'll ask a question. It's about the. Well, let's see if I need to get a market. The interest. The short term liability recurs into, I mean, this quarter is due to daily. I want you pointed out the need when you trim a true T's.

So we do have a fair bit of bonds about 817 million. Do next year. Yeah. So in terms of refinancing option is what, Tony has mentioned, we do have available commit facilities on hand. In excess of one building that we could use to refinance these matrices over the next 12 months. Right now we're still observing the bond market. On and off, we do have reverse inquiries. It's a method of whether, you know, what, invest the one and what we want match. So they may want, you know, like much longer 10 than what we want.

So it's more or more metal of a pricing antenna. What we are looking for depends on the 10 again. Yeah. So for the same 10, you're looking at say, a midpoint of five years. Investors can look at longer 10, like 10 years or even longer. So for us, if we are comparing the banks market, it's on a five year 10. I would say that at this point, the bonds market may require the selling more credit spread, because of the volatility in interest rates.

Can I just repeat a question that Gulla asked because I think we could start a microphone. I mean, I've heard, I think Gulla was asking any difference in the rates between the facilities and entry and, yeah. Wilson, you know, I'm grateful. Hi, one in Wilson from August, and we just have a few short hours keeping questions. Could you remind us when 21 color key rental contributions are coming in? When does the 21 color team handle stats? So I want you to start it. Okay. And on utility cost, the increase quite a bit for the first half. Do you how much further increase do you see in the second half? So second half, we'll see a little bit more than the first half.

Because first half, we had the benefit of half. There was a, also extended from the whole contract for three months. So we enjoyed a little bit more with, on a brand basis and mentioned, we have a 90% portfolio, not about 90% higher than compared to last year. So second half, obviously, the day we see about 4.5% And this seems to not forget about you and who took new asset, like, from C. Potentially, but, people 5% think, all depends on consumption. So we are trying to measure the assumptions. Okay. Can I just ask a couple of questions from the webinar?

So the one question about what is the hedge duration for big step? And what is the cost of new tree Singapore debt today? The average hedge duration is about 3.5 years. Current rates for a tree year, I'm very much bank loans. Yes. I think in terms of all in, we're probably looking at closer through, like slightly below tree, below tree, between 2.5 to tree. Yes, Jo.

Hi, this is Jo from the DBS. I have three questions. The first one, who share your percentage of G.I. contributes that by across turnover. And my second question is regarding the across turnover. I understand like 5 to 14% on more basis is like GTO. And we want to understand whether that's by design or is it something that happened in the last two years? And my last question is regarding the co-working space. Understand your top 10, 10 and 10 for about 3.9% is co-working space, kind of 10 and it's like we work and working place. So what does understand? Because some people see these, they're met rivals rather than complementary.

So your thoughts behind that. And another question is like, why not do it yourself? Yeah, thanks. Okay, first question, GTO hobby or ourselves are present currently about 7%. 4 to 15% to some extent, not every bump deal would be different. Some design because it would be structured during the difficult period time. But others are actually purely organic. They're only performing just very well. So like, I even say 15% I am a, it's the top. We didn't do much on this one. It's going up to 15%. Co-working space operator, we see both them at them as complementary, right? We honestly speaking, but has to be quite,

so the position are quite different. So even the co-working space, the way the one to position of child market would be quite different. So we work at Co-C-W-T who is actually a competitor, our also our operator, right? And but they one way we decide that they want to operate for us, then there has to be a discussion about the position would be appreciated. So that one over in each other's position. So we know that clear, when there's a tender walk in, we have a specific requirement, quite immediately, we know which is sort of, should it be the managed area or in the owner's space? So the position could be quite clear, they one.

But then if this is the way we, this is the entire thing, once you do that, we think this is our competition. There's all that. The question is why we're not doing ourselves. We are doing ourselves, we're just that we're actually doing ourselves. He, W-3 in this case, would be the one running the day to day. It's still committing our own people to do it. And they also have the only network, the Risha, the way the market. So I understand for the TWP arrangement, so they rented the space, or do they rent a space and they're operating on their own and then you have a space that they are operating for you. So the user, the purpose we want was as a example,

they rent as a tenant with us at one floor. Then the another tool for we say you help us to manage, we spend the K-back on the river below what you have us to manage the space. Okay, so I'm trying to understand because say someone approached them, how would they know, go to their own space or your space? So earlier I answered the question, I see the differentiation between the managed area space and their own vendor space has to be quite clear on where you want to position the market. So that there will not be too much ambiguity when the sales specific haven comes for a query. But many times actually is true the other area where we go directly to the institution,

you market the space and the list of requirements of which sometimes it's about the string space quite easily we signal the own space. So quite a fabulous query as you come in for a whole. I also want to take this chance to just also on this now we talk about how much about how much of managed space at the cap of spring and the six-patriarch. So here a CapitaSpring is two floors of managed space, nice expansion, where it's changed. We also have a new school. Oh, so I'm going to give you a second. Hi Simon from DBS, thanks for the presentation. Just two questions. First one I wanted to ask is, given where interest rates are today, I'm just wondering, do you see in terms of balancing between incumbent and incumbent assets?

Do you see that securitizing either getting secured debt or perhaps doing more like your RCS trust bonds? Would that be a viable solution today to addressing or managing your cost of funding? That's the first one. The second question I had is with regards to the office rentals. Is that currently, are you ever shared this? A clause providing for inflation and do you see a need to adjust those clauses for the current context to allow you to recover or increase your rent? Okay, first question. Oh, maybe I think the second question was that. Currently, we don't have such an inflation index.

It's not a common factor since Singapore. It's very, very common overseas where it's indexed to the kind of inflation indexing. It should be CPI, could be RPI, could be RPI, could be a signal. Singapore market doesn't really practice that. So RTS Link structure is such that it's all negotiated of money. It can't move way. No, traditionally you look at the media state. We're just looking at the last slide. It's here on the news on the fair. It's like a four decade-time interest rate. So historically interest rate has been very big. So if you want to have inflation index, it cuts forward. You can also help you. The major force, not to be able to adjust rate when the demand is strong, but inflation is still relatively benign. It's a consensus.

Whether we move into that, we do not have a clear position on that in a moment. I don't think we want to do it. I don't think we have the inflation in a moment. And the question on secure debt. Yeah, because the question, generally we don't find that significant difference between secure versus unsecured. And I would say in terms of the credit profile, I think that that's where the difference is we are rated A. So that itself is very good rating for us to assess the banks or the bond market.

Without having to secure our property portfolio. So meaning just to clarify, there's not much savings. You see between secure and secure. Therefore, unsecured is generally lower than secure. But somebody is a halo effect on a rate that equals. Yes. Yes. A similar example. I see. So there's no need currently. Then how would you address the current outstanding for the RCS trust? The R's do intend to refine to bonds. See, the intention is that as and when the RCS debt to comes from comes up for refinancing, we would raise that CICT level to pair it down.

All right. And remove the security of the time. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. I think given time, I just missed last question from the webinar. The question from Steve is, the CICT retain any cash in first half 2022. And do we have any retain cash? They bring back a tax exam from previous years that are available for distribution. So two question. One is whether we retain any cash in first half. Any whether we have any retain cash from previous years that are available for distribution. We do have a very small amount of retained cash. Not actually coming from dividend income from the listed investments in the two risks that we have.

We are coding very small. And for previous year, I would say I do not believe that there's significant cash that we're holding back. Because what we hold is generally for working capital. There are small K-packs that we fund. Mostly overseas. So we'll have a last question for the audience. Yeah. I just want to understand the Xavier from Wayne Star here. So I just want to understand the listing market and office listing market and Singapore a bit better. So I saw that number of pieces sign has dropped about like 60% from last quarter to this quarter.

So just trying to understand why is it why is it missing momentum so slow and is there something about the spec allocation of capital towers that new occupiers are putting kind of like put off? Okay, look at all over the big space that few have written down really. So I think more or less of all the occupancy is scraping out the self-occupant tower. You are looking at it. So generally, they also do some extend link to the available space we have. But they also knew supply for me to the market. They go go make town towers also coming in. So they'll be a little bit more competition now. But by and large, the I would say the inquiry is not any

worse off from a pace perspective. It doesn't really don't have a lost stock level as well for viewing. Yeah. And then for the last one on the retail rental version, I think you have a signal that says that excluding the retail component of a referral city, rental conversion would have been a positive 1.1%. So I mean given that the referral city is going through a rejuvenation, I'm just curious why is it dragging down the rental reversion. So it's because I think that the one would be very misleading if you include because the referral city used to be single land, a single source and go buy a realm in scenario, going to multi land. And some of them we are bringing tenants that are used to be outside.

They're going into the space. So kind of difficult to really measure that overall reversion, which is why we specifically support the street level for people in comparison purpose. But that's a given sense if they were going in what kind of rental thing where they are. Which is what we're trying to do this. Oh, sorry. What they're noticing first, the note seems to be suggesting that the referral city components wanted us dragging down, but the way you're describing it sounds like the referral city is under a screen component. Reversion for rental reversion. Yeah, because they are moving with the referral city. The other way, they are moving with the referral city.

So reference is the as a stock. Actually, the number can be published in English. The Robinson space representative of 25% or NLA. So within there, there will be tenant that. So we're cutting up spaces and we're cutting up spaces. You're in common corridor. So within there, there'll be tenant that used to be within Robinson. And there are also some tenant that within Robinson, we're bringing them out into our own space. So it's very confusing from a reversion number to perspective. Then there are some tenant we move on level one to level two. There'll be a tiny difference. Which is why we thought that space should be taken up completely. But the number is not full representation. We'll be more clear ones that are stabilized.

While we're trying to reflect the missing at the same time, we also trying to question some tenants who still understand. Questions whether we're within the right location or a same location or other location on the floor. So that the configuration will be of distortion. Okay, thank you so much. Thank you. So I think we're coming to the end of our briefing and the Q&A session. Thank you very much everyone for joining us here and also online. For those online, look at a lot more questions. Some really addressed by the audience questions here. And the rest we'll get back to you separately. Thank you very much. Yeah, thanks a lot. Have a good day. Just.