FY 2024 Full-Year Financial Results Briefing

Good morning everyone. I'm Grace Chan, head of Investor Relations. It's good to see all of you here. I know well well into February, but every year during this event it always feels like the real start to the year. I hope 2025 has been great for all of you. It certainly has been for us and we will share more later. And to our viewers online, thank you for tuning in. We will be discussing our CLLI's 2024 financial results. Many of you join our investor day last November. We talked about our growth strategy. Now today is all about numbers. As always we will have our group seats.

She couldn't Andrew and Paul to take us through where we are today and what we expect for the year ahead. And without further ado, let's dive in Andrew. Let me invite Andrew to the stage. Thanks Grace. Good morning everyone. Thank you again lovely to see everybody. I'll take about 10-15 minutes to walk you through just a high level sense from the senior management team about our performance last year. I do really want to focus about our commitment to grow the business before I pass it to Paul to take you through the actual numbers.

Okay, so for 2024, I think we produced a pretty decent set of numbers. You probably have seen most of them by now. I hope you agree. Overall Pat me was up. We delivered a good set of profit. I'm pretty proud of the way we were able to grow all four of our primary fee income earning businesses. They're all up and on balance. We're up about high single digits, which is what we said we were going to do. And we were able to deliver that in a challenging year. We said last year we were going to focus on recycling.

Perhaps at the expense of portfolio gain. So not committing to selling at the highest possible price, but to commit to bring capital down and redeploy that capital and build up dry powder for what we think is coming and ability to redeploy that capital. And I think we are delivered on that. We we divested in the access of five billion and deliver a decent portfolio gain. Not maximum portfolio gain decent portfolio gain prioritizing capital recycling over profit. For the strategic reasons that I hope you understand and will agree with us. We're important to do. We've talked about the shareholders with dividends and shared by backs supporting the stock when we felt it was undervalued and with access capital.

So all of these three things. I think our testimony to listening to our investors listening to stakeholders and making sure we execute and delivering on what we said we're going to do. So the business today I think is in good shape operating cash flow in excess of a billion. That's again recurring income that will see us through the undoubted uncertainty that is coming. Every day, every week there's a surprise existential in nature. So we have to keep being ready to pivot being agile, taking nothing for granted and having reoccurring operating cash flow allows you to do that. Balance sheet is much better shaped than it was a year ago.

Gearing is down and as you'll see later with Paul, dry powder is up importantly because this is to our mind strategic advantage for us in what lies ahead and the ability to deploy capital to take advantage of interesting opportunities. So that's where we are coming out of 2024. I hope you agree with us. Please ask questions later on. You all know about the 200 billion target. I think we made decent progress both organically and in organically. Organically we grew a few m5 by five billion both through our listed funds as well as understood product. And then equally in significant last year something that many of you have been waiting a long time for.

We've been able to deliver two strategic acquisitions one in Australia and one in Japan growing M&A. Sorry, going FUM (Funds Under Management) by 100% basis of 13 billion taking us to 117 closer substantially to our 200 billion target by 2028. Another commitment that we made to you. Okay, let's talk about organic growth. Last year we raised 3.3 billion both from the listed and private side. On the private side we brought into the CLI fold 19 new capital LPs which to us again represents a significant step forward in growing our private equity franchise.

So these are new investors who have taken a leap of faith with CLI in the early days of our journey and are agreeing with us in terms of the investment strategies that we are putting out and the products that we are manufacturing. We were able to deploy 5.2 billion in gross value both again listed and private. And these were principally along the three themes that hopefully you by now are familiar with what we want to pursue disruption demographics and digitalization. And here you see a list of the products both the public and the private side that we are putting to work in supporting these long run secular investment themes in Asia principally that we believe will survive and persist through whatever uncertainty the next four to five years will bring to us.

And that's incredibly important to be able to stand with confidence in front of your LPs and tell them doesn't matter what happens in the next two to three years invest in the long term because we have the thought leadership and the execution capability and the teams on the ground to deliver target returns whether it's core whether it's reads whether it's value add whether it's the magic whether it's special sits whether it's credit. And we want to talk a little bit about that was the organic site right this is the inorganic site and let's spend a minute on M&A now something we hear quite often is why are you guys taking so long why are you guys taking so long. So I want to give you a hopefully an analogy that will resonate.

And those of us who are no people who are getting married are marrying ourselves or have children who want to get married when they come to you and they say oh I've met someone and I want to get married what's the first question you asked them. Okay how much money is maybe the first question how second question second question is how well do you know the person because this thing usually is forever. And spend a lot of speed and expert you know expert diet and execute the heck out of it but at the end of the day when you are getting married as I like an M&A to you got to spend time to get to know the person you're going to get into partnership with otherwise all of the effort all of the capital you deploy is not going to add up too much in fact you will destroy value.

I know that most M&A doesn't work out. So both SC and win get were products of a very long journey that lasted more than a year. I've lost count of a number of times she couldn't flew to Australia to me with Pharaoh and wherever we chat was we made efforts to go and see him. Genuine and Paul are basically Australian citizens now because they spent better part of last year in Melbourne making sure that we could work with new partners. And while it takes time I think that is absolutely fundamental because if this thing doesn't work out we owe this to our shareholders and our stakeholders and you guys. So I speak on behalf of the team and I say we would rather take longer and make sure we get it right rather than rush into the M&A for the sake of a headline because we said we're going to buy some stuff.

So this is both a product of all the one years and we are fully confident we're going to make this thing work because we spend the time getting to know our partners. We also I would like to think our strategic in our choice of partners Japan up 8 billion Australia up 2 billion and this is bite size with a trajectory to grow lodging in Japan, particularly and of course credit in Australia which we see our big growth markets again aligned to our analytics disruption demographics. So I hope you can see there's a method to what we are doing in M&A. There's more to come. Janine is thrown Australian passport away for now.

She's now got other passports. She's not going to tell you where. But trust me when I tell you she is turning over stones in lots and lots of different places. We are doing the same thing that we did with Wing Gate and SC being very careful very considered in making sure we partner with the right guys. There's no shortage of candidates and again goes back to the point I was making about having dry powder and having the balance sheet as a strategic asset. Now is the time. Okay growth with balance focus again method to what we are doing. We talked about two years now we need to be acknowledged. We were heavy we were heavy in China particularly principally.

So here you see on the left where we were in 23 where we were last year and where we said we want to get to right. So what's what's good. What's good is China has come down 31 26 in one year as a share of FUM (Funds Under Management) and we want to get that down to 1520. I will concede that this movement is a result of growth in other markets as much as it is in a conscious decision to reduce China. We also say that China is not easy to bring down. It's not a fire sale. We have good assets and we will reduce capital and point when it makes sense to do so.

And when we can convert that capital and point into FUM (Funds Under Management) and FRE (Fee-Related Earnings) in our China for China strategy. So to see on is this again has a incredibly challenging task and one that he is embracing every day to find the right partners in China to convert dollar to our MBA. And we can tell you we may have sold and we sold at market but we converted into FUM (Funds Under Management) and that's fee income for us. Because that's the strategy. We hope you understand. This year we should see some concrete evidence of that. The other big one for us is India. Now India, 7 to 7 percent not where we want it to be.

So this year expect us to execute on India. And don't mean to put, actually I do mean to put pressure on Sanjeev. He knows he doesn't need more pressure. He knows this is a big year. We celebrated 30 years in India last year. All eyes on India. The time for India growth is now and we have every reason to be successful in India. We've got the right team. We've got the legacy. We've got the track record. We are in the right sectors. So I'm very confident in India. And we will execute this year. And then you see that growth in growth in Asia right from 11 to 20 percent in Australia, Japan and Korea. So the other markets where we were previously punching underweight, we are now getting to that point alongside SC with Wingate that we can now say to us confidently that we've got a bonafide egg.

AP presence that allows us to grow products across the region. Okay. The other markets are, we can leave to comment questions. Now right hand side, this is sectors, the metrics focusing along the 3Ds that we talked about. I've decided to show you what we are focusing on in 2025. This is private equity product that we is on the launch, it's on the shelf. Ready to go. APAC India DC, APAC credit, APAC self storage, APAC lodging, India locks. So these Asia wellness and China RMB. Okay. None of these are surprised to anybody. They are consistent with the thematics.

We are setting out. They are consistent with the strategy. They're consistent with what we see as a house as long-term, secular, and vestibule trends. So look for this product and this is what we need to execute around in 2025. Capital raising target, deployment target, you will ask, I cannot give you the in-house number, other than that is aspirational, but you should look to see us do the same as last year or better. Because that's what growth is. You don't do that then we didn't grow. So, lodging management, very strong pipeline and strategy set up by Kevin and his team. We are on the way to 500 in revenue.

EBITDA margins will grow with scale and with execution. So expect profitability and EBITDA to stay on course or not improve as the business scales up. Openings, pipeline, on track. Commercial management. Focusing on third party contracts, you can see the growth in our ability to sign very asset light. Third party contracts, again, a testament to our track record, our execution, ability to drive scale, our ability to include people in Cap Star, etc. So the four pillars, funds, reads, LM and CM, generating single digit growth organically, expect to see the same from us.

That's our track record, that's our run rate that we want to continue to achieve. I'll end on this one, which is to me incredibly important and I think separate CLI from many of our peers today. Balance sheet is a strategic asset. No question about it. Because we've been diligent in getting gearing down, gearing a poll or share that with you later, lower gearing takes the sting out of high interest rates. So we've got a benefit there already from up here. Now what does it also do? It gives us dry powder. So if you look at the gearing headroom, we've got roughly 4 to 7 billion in dry powder, just on gearing alone.

We've set aside about 1.2 billion as strategic capital for our new partners as a commitment to them to grow their businesses because we believe in it. We've set aside 500 million to develop our credit business by warehousing good products that will roll into Asia credit, Australia credit and other markets career. We've already spent half a billion in the M&A of both Wingate and SECP expected to complete very shortly. We've also been seeding assets. We have seeded a DC piece of DC land in Japan that is now the seed asset for our Asia DC fund.

We've seeded a hotel in Tokyo, Shinjuku area, which is a seed asset for Clarity. And again, the ability to seed using balance sheet is something very few GPs can do today. There's just no balance sheet. So we find something that's interesting and we want to use that to seed our funds. That's a distinct advantage for Cli. We others have to go and look for the capital outside. We don't need to. We can deploy first with the conviction that capital will come. Obviously if capital doesn't come, we feel. that's a different issue. But the ability to get the asset in in Q-Bate and then see and use that to roll out product gives us a distinct advantage in this market.

So if you see what we've committed already from the headroom, the dry powder is 2 to 5 billion, which is not insignificant. So it's something that is a strategic asset. I see again. And Giku and has made it very clear. The board has made it very clear to us. Let's use this strategic asset today. So I hope that sets the stage for what should be an event for 2025. It is investing for growth. We are not investing defensively. We are not taking steps to protect ourselves, etc. We see this as an opportunity for CLI to separate from the pact. Why don't I stop then hand it over to Paul.

Take you through some numbers. Thank you. Thanks, Andrew. Good morning, everyone. So I will actually be pretty fast. What Andrew has been realized is, you know, I've done this financial presentation for three years now. And I've actually somehow managed to put all of the slides into Andrew's section. And his section is now longer than mine. What's very well for me? Okay. Financial performance for last year. So last year, total profits for us were up. 165%. There's the numbers all the way on the right side to 400 and 79. The drivers for that, starting on the left, is the shift in our operating profit numbers. So overall operating profit numbers came down 10%. And as you can see where the makeup of that was, it came down because our real estate investment business,

which is our ownership in properties and rates and in funds, that portion came down. That was largely driven by the divestment of a number of assets, namely ION, US multifamily, three hotels, which we sold to S. Scott Trust the year before. This is generally how we see the trend going. I mean, this component will become less important for us. Me not have as much movement. I mean, part of the movement this year was also because of interest costs. The last two years interest costs have been higher. So if interest costs turn this year, that number may not slide as much with the divestments. But the operating or the fee-dissiness operating profit went up 10%. So it was good growth for us. Are we satisfied at 10%? No. Ideally, this is 15%, 20% type growth, which is what we would like.

But the idea is the proportions are shifting correctly. And we, you know, during invested, we also talked about this getting this operating profit up to $1 billion. That's still the goal. So while the proportions are shifting, the most important for us is absolute growth in that number. The middle bar, the portfolio gains, portfolio gains, up slightly. The reason it's up slightly is even though we divest a lot more last year. Last year, gross divestments, 5.5 billion. The average divestment premium was about 5%. The year before we divested a lot less, but we had a much higher divestment premium of about 16%. This for us was part of the shift. Right? We are actively recycling because we see that there are going to be opportunities for us to invest. So we want to be more disciplined on making sure that we recycle what was on balance sheet.

First, why it's only up slightly despite the bigger divestment number. And then on the right hand side or the third bar, you can see our revaluation. And I'll spend a little bit of time going through the revaluation of my country. But obviously the revaluation drop off was much lower than the year before. We did still have some weakness in some markets. India and Singapore made up a lot of that. Still weakness in Europe, US and China. But what you'll see here, which you won't see on the country split, is this also included the consolidation of capital and as God trust. So we did make an announcement in December on this, but in this particular bar, the impact of that is about 82 million. Really, just the flushing out of FCTR for us. It does not catch issue, but it does impact our portfolio numbers here.

So you put that all together. I would say our operating numbers are still strong from a fee business and relatively healthy. And then obviously with the lower revaluation loss, our overall numbers are quite healthy. So on the most important part, which is really our four fee verticals, which Andrew was sharing a little bit about what is going on. You can see where the growth came across the four segments. So if you look at us over the last three years, this was a relatively good year. All right, we had growth across all four verticals. If you look at us over the last couple of years, we've always had a little bit of up and downs. As mentioned, we would like the growth to be stronger, but we did see on the listed side, particularly with some of the Ritz making bigger acquisitions. We saw some improvement there. I hope is that with interest rates, hopefully past peak and coming down,

that we'll see a little bit more activity here, and this will grow as well. Together with ideally new listings or contributions from some of the M&A. On the private funds, still a small contribution, though it did improve nicely. This part in particular, the M&A will help. And we should see a little bit more growth in the fee numbers, particularly on the revenue side. With those acquisitions, assuming they complete in the first half, we will see that contribution really in the second half. Logic management this year compared to previous years looks a little bit lower. It's partly because we had a handful of one-offs. We had a little bit of right backs. We had some termination fees, and we had a Chanyi-Connec at Chanyi previous year. So it skews the numbers a little bit.

So we've tried to split that out a bit so that you can see what was run rate versus what was one-offs. On a growth basis, it grew about 12%, excluding the one-offs. We think a double digit growth rate is about right for lodging. I think the team did a good job last year. Despite the drop-offs, we did still see an increase. And we expect it'll continue to grow at a double digit run rate. And it doesn't necessarily come from revenue from a available room rate or occupancy for us. Really, the growth for us is from signing more management contracts. And as Andrew had on his slides, as long as we are signing 10, 12, 13, 14,000 new units, and opening new units, you'll see that growth rate for lodging continue. And then commercial management had a big jump.

We fair the jump is partly due to a restructuring of fees that we had. Those of you who invested in CICT know it was just a technical change in how the fees was. So it's not so much of a profit impact. But it had a growth rate. Excluding that, it is still a good single digit, mid to high single digit growth rate, which is what we like from commercial management. It's not meant to be growing as rapidly as private funds if we're getting good steady increase. We're actually very happy with that. So overall, 9% growth rate up, notably margins are up as well this year. With the improvement, the scale in some of the businesses like lodging, with more activities on the private funds and listed funds that improve our margins. That about 50% overall. That is a pretty good ratio for us.

I think we will stay in that range high 40s 50 assuming that we continue activities. So that was the fee business on the real estate investment business. So this is our ownership stakes as mentioned. This one gets to be fair a little bit harder to explain in a sense that we de-consolidated class last year. So next year, in Switzerland and I are going to have a hard time explaining to everybody why our numbers look so different. But that's because when we de-consolidated the impact of class, what you'll see is well on a, and I would say more from a profit viewpoint, you know, as you have seen our real estate investment profits, largely stable, has come down a little bit due to their investments. But this includes, includes consolidation of class.

And the swing is actually quite substantial on our numbers. On an e-bit R basis, it is an almost $400 million swing. No impact to profits, whether we have class or not. But when you look at this chart, Nick CI, I say this in advance because I know all the analysts are going to ask me. It doesn't impact very much. But from a profit bottom line viewpoint, but it will impact what we show on these charts. So I just want to highlight on the right hand side, which is our bisectement real estate investment business. As you can see, the balance sheet component has come down. We think it may come down a little bit more with the divestments. But as Andrew mentioned this year is really, I would say, for us, the theme is it really about investing for growth. And as we invest in we warehouse, so for instance, last year we warehouse our Australia credit program for a while before syndicating it out and raising funds for that.

That generated a 10 plus percent return on balance sheet for that investment. So we still expect that the warehousing and some of the efforts we're making on investment will make up some of this balance sheet contribution. So we don't expect that to slide off as much in the coming year. So we're still reinvesting that component. The private funds component will grow just by virtue of the fact that we have investing more behind some of our new funds. So that component will start to creep up over time. We would like it to be a larger number than it is right now. And then the one way you'll see the big shift is the listed funds component. So the listed funds component here is really the ASCOT Trust component. So that for the 723 it will drop by about 380 million. So the big drop off next year will really just be from a deconcilitation effect.

We'll still have capital and Malaysia Trust consolidated on balance sheet. But that is not as much of a big swing class was actually made quite a fair bit of difference for us. So that proportion will come down. But then what you'll see is a little bit more of an even contribution, to where we have our capital deployed. Valuation by market. So this year we saw India do incredibly well logistics and data centers. This is partly our pass through through Clint. Also what we have on balance sheet through the funds. Singapore similarly, those of you who follow CICT and ascendist rate would have seen that increase, which is the nice uptick in these two markets. That was obviously offset by the drop in China.

So this year our valuation drop in China of 317 million. This is obviously lower than the year before where we had a 500 million plus drop off in valuation. So we do think from a valuation viewpoint this is near bottom for us. Single as certain specific assets may have some shift up or down. But we are not necessarily expecting a lot more losses from there. Obviously in the market they have been transactions on some of this where we've seen some up and down depending on the assets. I think similarly for us certain assets we are willing to sell below book, certain assets we are expecting to sell above book. So there will be a little bit of trade off going forward. But obviously this was the big movement on balance sheet.

On a net basis down 179 million. As I mentioned the difference between the earliest slide on that was really just the class de-consolidation. Devestments we've talked about this a fair bit. I think maybe the thing to highlight is we divested 5.5 billion. Last year gross asset value 4.6 effective method more to us in many ways because that's what we can recycle. The focus for us going forward now is we're not stopping on divestments. But divestments are now a lot more less critical for us because now we've got a lot of dead headroom and we've made progress on their funds. So real focus for now is investing not long term things to keep on the balance sheet. But really investing in platforms through M&A or warehousing seed assets or portfolios which will be the intent on the use and capital.

So you'll see us to a centigrade DM for size recycling and a little bit more going forward because the real focus for us is for growth. That's not to say we're not focused on recycling. We still have a fair bit of assets on balance sheet. On the top left you can see our balance sheet exposure. So we've dropped from that 8.6 to 4.3. Those of you who know us quite well quite astutely have pointed out a fair bit of that is still China. About 3.5, 3.5 billion of that is China. The intent is everything on balance sheet. We are still at least legacy wise on balance sheet. The intent is still to recycle or divest that over the next three years. That's still part of the plan. But this number, the balance sheet number will go up and down as we warehouse assets.

So you may see increases as it's times similar to the Japanese data center which was announced earlier this year. The number was quite a big number. I think 944 million sing. Obviously it is meant to go into a fun way, way earlier than that. So we don't expect that much expenditure. But because of warehousing like this, we will see a creep up in certain cases on the balance sheet number. So this one will move up and down a little bit more. Private funds went up because of some of the new funds launch. We took a little bit of stake. This number potentially will come down as some of our older funds wrap up. But this number should be fairly stable for a while. The one that may surprise you obviously is the listed funds stake went up this year, despite the deconciliation.

Some of the sale of Ascot Trust units. Similarly with the DIS or the distribution and species this will come down. The creep up was really because we wanted to support our writs. So some of them when they did equity fund raising, they did preferential offerings. We wanted to take our pro-rata share. In the longer run, we are expecting that we'll become more efficient here. Our preference. And all the writs here are here. Our preference is that they grow so fast that we don't have to sell or give away any units. And our percentage comes down naturally. That would be our preference. And then we're happy to hold it at this number. But assuming that that takes time this number should decrease slightly in the coming years. And then just the last couple of slides. One is on our capital reduction efforts. What does that meant to our balance sheet? So balance sheet is now gearing at 0.39 times.

This is the lowest it has been in, I'd say two decades potentially. This is for us from our viewpoint very strong. We feel that we have a headroom for two things. One is we can afford to do a lot of investments. A lot of growth, which is why at the bottom when we look at our debt headroom. If we go to 0.7.9 we believe we've got 4 to 7 billion of flexibility there. If we're willing to do that. Obviously these numbers will move up and down as we sell in divestmore assets. We'll have also more headroom as we make investments. And as we do our distribution obviously we'll come down. But we wanted to give you an illustration of how we are thinking of our capital and how we can deploy that. Maybe two other things just to highlight. One is our operating cash flow continues to be strong.

And this is something we're quite comfortable with the shift to being more of a recurring income basis business. The cash flows from the fee business and the cash flows from our very stable reinvestment. And actually build a very nice anchor for us as we're thinking of longer term growth. I would say the debt headroom and recycling together with the cash flow is the reason we're comfortable on our dividends. Would we, suddenly we would like our payout ratio to be lower. We'd like our profits to be higher. But when we look at what we're willing to do. We've maintained our 12 cents cash dividend this year. We are proposing, obviously has to be approved by shareholders, but we're proposing a 12 cents cash dividend. And a six cents distribution in species or approximately six cents of CICT units. Two reasons. One is we think our cash flows are strong enough to maintain a good dividend for shareholders.

That's the cash core cash component. And secondly, we are looking to reduce capital. We are still trying to improve our return on equity. We can do that through multiple ways. We can do that through increased dividends through giving distribution species through share buybacks. The idea is partly to reduce that capital base for us to help improve our return on equity. This is not a large component. If you look at the distribution species, it works out to about 300 million. Ideally, we're investing up to four to five billion. So this is a small component, but we do think it's also a way for us to reward shareholders. We've been with us for a while. Hopefully most of you have been with us for a long time. But we also want to keep this as part of a longer term running dividend policy for us. Which is why you also see the one other bullet point is that adjustment on our dividend policy from 30% to a 50% minimum.

We are about 50% right now. But when we look at ourselves a longer term and we look at our cash flows, we believe that we can maintain our numbers quite comfortably. And we believe that something like the distribution in species is a good way for us to return capital. Also helps our rates improve free float. And we've actually seen through previous distributions, we've actually seen an improvement in daily liquidity and turnover for some of our rates as well. So we're quite positive on doing this a little bit more going forward. And then just, and this ties to the earliest slide, I think for us from a financial viewpoint, how we look ourselves. The trend for us is the pivot for us into being a real asset manager continues. Less and less of our income will come from the real estate investment business.

Though we from an absolute profit wise, we expect to grow. The important thing for us is really growing the perpetual and the fun fee income. Because we think from a valuation viewpoint, we are trying to get the market obviously to look at us understanding that the model has changed. And that we are really a price to earnings or a multiple type business that you will look at for most recurring stocks, rather than a legacy price to book investment property investment company. So that's a change for us, which is ongoing. We're quite pleased of the direction. Now I think the real core for us is to really grow the absolute profits and keep this proportion.

So this is just a summarize, I think last year for us, and we've been through a fair bit of this. I would say the main thing for us is, besides the growth in recurring income, the FUM (Funds Under Management) scaling across the markets we've been talking about Australia in the European. I would say it's really that top right for us. I think this year we're really focused on now that we've got a lot of this capital bank. How do we invest that and where are we going to see that growth come from? And on that idea of where that growth is going to come from, I'm going to pass the time over the Chiku in, who is going to talk about our outlook for this year. Thanks, Paul. I think Paul and Andrew have given a very clear overview in terms of the business, what we have done.

I think it's quite clear what we need to do in going forward is just focusing on strategy, execute in terms of the fundraising, looking for good deals. And quite happy to at least say that from the team perspective, a lot of it depends on the team makeup. I think we have set up the teams in place. I think the commercial management team, no problem. The escort team is there. At least the funds team, yes, there are some changes in terms of the CEO, but I hope you feel that, you know, we continue to make sure that we have a good pipeline of talents to be able to help the different vehicles that we have built up. And the private funds, I must say that, I mean, most of you have known that I concur really also helped the role of CEO of the private funds business, spending a lot of time in terms of thinking about product, thinking about spending time out piece.

And quite confident to say that, you know, we share more interesting activities and outcomes this year, because I mean, I think in terms of the product, in terms of the way how we look at assets, it becomes interesting. So, three key points before we go into Q&A. One is that, real estate industry, I think all of you see that here, no, there's been pretty much quite challenging the last few years. High rates, not just, not just with rates going up, but it went up so fast and stayed there for so long. And of course, affected transaction activities. But we are starting to see interesting opportunities coming up. I think because sort of banks and private lenders are losing patience.

And that becomes interesting, especially with all the teams that we have built up in the different countries, seeing opportunities, looking at how we can look at some of this interesting things and convert them into real opportunities. And so, if we like the deal, and if the capital, if we don't have other LPs that's immediately available, we like the returns, we are quite prepared to do it on the balance sheet as a way of proving that we can be shut investors on our own. And to be honest, actually, if you can find good deals and generally, well, downside protected is not difficult to find LPs to come along with you. So that's point number one. Point number two is we cannot away from the fact that Joe politics is taken center-stitch in investments and capital allocation decisions.

We have many partners and major MNC tenants, conversations with them. Originally, everybody was thinking about rushing to do the supply chain adjustments. Given what's happening, the news that's coming out from DC on a daily basis. For people who have not made some of this long-term commitments people are holding back, taking away the C project as real. I mean, I'm sure all of you are hearing different stories about that. So that's why investing on the right teams, investing on the right asset classes becomes very, very critical. We still like the DC teams.

That's something that we'll continue to do focusing more on the cloud data center than the AI and the beta center. Because at this point in time, we are still not quite clear what deep-sick the impial deep-sick would mean. But DC as a whole in terms of demand for DC, in terms of digitization, digitalization, in terms of EV, IoT, the use of data center, use of data. I think that will continue to stay. So data center, there will be demand for it. We just need to make sure that we choose the right asset class in the right countries with the right capabilities. We like self-storage. We like private credit. We like special sets, special sets, still focusing on higher returns. I mean, looking at interesting things that the team is doing.

We like the India story. There's a tremendous pressure on Sanjefia in terms of getting things to crank up. Because I always just said Sanjefia to make sure that I mean India is such a big country. We need to deliver much more significant FUM (Funds Under Management) otherwise. India will not have a, the India team will not have a place on the discussion table. So there's a big opportunity on the US and the US. But I think we are quite confident. The last point I want to say is that we fundamentally believe that interest rates will stay higher for longer. We do not believe that the interest rates will go back to what it was. And what it means is higher cost of capital that will be demand for higher returns.

So the distinction between alpha and beta returns becomes more critical. So having the right teams on the ground to be able to hunt for off market views, mis-price assets, asset below replacement costs, having the operating capabilities to turn the assets around or be prepared to work with operating strong operating partners to turn the assets around, find exits, becomes extremely critical. And that's what we have been doing. Of course you can't do everything yourself. That's why we embark on strategic acquisitions. Like we engage like a C capital to both on in whether it's in verticals or in markets that we need.

And you will see us continuing to do that. Androids explain how we look at M&A. I think it's an important part to help us in our growth. But we are not here just to buy a UM for a UM sick. At the end of the day, we hope to be able to invest in a platform. It doesn't matter whether it is 5 billion, whether it's 20 billion. The key is when you invest in a platform, can you help it to say double its growth or triple its growth? That is meaningful. Because remember, whenever you buy a platform, you are paying x times multiple. Assuming it's ten times multiple, that means you're paying the earnings, ten years in advance. And unless you're able to drive the AUM growth through working with the team, through helping them to drive additional fundraising.

I mean, you're just paying for a platform that is not accurate to the platform and to the shareholders. So I just want to leave these three points with you then we can have more interactions over the Q&A. Thank you. Thank you, Chikun. Can you please Andrew and Paul please join Chikun? Okay, before we take the first question, just wanted to let viewers online know that you can also send in your questions via the Zoom platform. So please do so if you have questions. And with that, we're happy to take the first question. We've got Marvin, always a fastest. Marvin, please invite to Marvin in the middle. I'm from JP Morgan.

I can grab Chikun and team. I think all our operating stats are pointing up at the AUM growth, the income balance sheet gearing down. We've got a few capital management questions. Some questions from investors this morning. This is in terms of the 12th send DPS. Based on second half, EPS looks at the payout ratios, more than 100%. Appreciate it. It's not full cash. How is we really thinking about that 12 cents this company are given that you're losing some cash flows from ION over the next 12 months? Same question in terms of buybacks. How do you think about that in relation to ROE? And ROE or how do you think it's going to be mid-single digits or using Intravid further from here?

I'll stop here. Thanks. Thanks, Evan. So I think on the dividend payout, obviously we've looked out so sludgely. We've always looked out so as cashpant me. And a cashpant me raised the show. It's about 81%. That is to be fair a little bit higher than we would like it to be as well. But when we look at our projections going forward, we look at our operating cash flow of over a billion, given the investment, the income from the REITs and sources enjoying ventures together with our operating income from the fee business. I think we're quite comfortable. So we look at that as a sustainable cash flow for a number, the 12 cents. I think, you know, obviously we can't give confirmation on dividends going forward because it's all subject to market conditions. But I think from a projection viewpoint we look quite comfortable with our cash flow.

On the second question on capital management on ROE and share buybacks. So, you know, share buybacks are still certainly one of the tools in the arsenal that we look at together with dividends. And we look at our dividend and species as well. But I would say this year for us in particular, what we are focused on is looking for, and we have been doing this for some time. But so this year we're going to execute looking for investments for growth. So if we are investing for growth, if we can find good opportunities that can generate double digit ROE return for us, or from the fee income business or even from holding on balance sheet, I would say that is the main focus. So, will we still continue to be active in terms of other aspects of capital management dividends buybacks? Yes. But the main focus for us and main use of capital this year is really going to be on investing for growth.

Longer term, we're still target targeting for a double digit ROE. It may just take us a little while to get there, partly, depending on how fast we're able to deploy effectively. Just to add on to Paul's point. A lot of it depends also on our fundraising ability. I think that the machine has been set up. We should see a lot more interesting things happening. And to be honest, once the machine starts, you find that you are using, raising a lot more the body capital, you use a lot less of your own money. You have a lot more flexibility to do things. And that's what we want to be able to do. Or in the meantime, keep the flexibility to build the capabilities.

I mean, I spend a lot of time talking to different asset managers around the world. Today, many of the asset managers, we don't balance sheet. Actually, facing pretty serious challenges. And having this strategic capital, of course, we need to make sure that we probably account on how we use the balance sheet proper capital management. And make sure that when we deploy, we can deploy the rate that can test higher than our cost of capital. I mean, that's the discipline that we have. And we can use it. It can actually help to make the difference in the market that many managers are feeling the stress at this point in time.

Take the advantage to really build the capabilities. And when the market continues to improve and the fundraising capabilities continues to come to unlock, you'll find that you'll be in a very, very good position. So that's how we are looking at the market at this point. Okay, thanks. Hi, Shane here from Goldman. First question is on the on balance sheet assets in China. What's the average LTV? You know, asking because I've seen some international players at your hand assets back to the bank. So under what's still in a row, we'll have to learn considered as an option.

Second question is on cost-rationalization. You have a lot of bank girlfriends here. Yeah. So how much of the cost-rationalization has been done is in the 50% of the margin. And why is the guidance to be fed despite ongoing efforts? Okay, I guess this one is me again. So on the China assets, I would say on average, we're typically most of our China assets are between 40 to 60% LTV. So make sure I've onshore, in certain cases onshore offshore. Given where valuations are, we are certainly not expecting to hand back keys on any of our assets. Certainly, I think if you look at historically for capital land, that's not something that we generally do.

I think that's very much more of a Western asset manager profile that it's a little bit more, that you'd see that a little bit more in those markets. It's a much less common in Asia, particularly, I would say for a player like us, and maybe this is also to reassure all the bankers who are here, that it's not something we wouldn't necessarily consider. On the part of the margins, so the cost-rationalization or cost-optimization efforts have started. So I think management don't know, but a lot of them will lose some of their free subscriptions to newspapers. We are making some efforts on that. Most of that effort only kicked off late last year, or a bigger push of it. It's not the second half of last year.

So we won't expect most of those savings flow through, actually, probably on a run rate basis not till next year. This year we'll see some of that savings. I think during the investor day, we had talked about a 50 to 75 million target on savings. We would only expect to see a portion of that come in this year. And then we are hopeful that by the end of a second half of 26, we start seeing the full flow through of that. So that's still work in progress. So because of that, you won't see as much of the margin adjustment this year. Partly also, the uplift in margins for us was due to a good deal of investment activity from the RITs and some performance fees from the private funds, depending on whether we see that component or that will help boost margins. But we don't necessarily always count on that in our budgeting.

So this is an important exercise. I mean, we expired to grow to 200 billion. At least as a aspirational target. Again, it's aspirational target. We want to make sure that we do it because we invest well. We can raise a lot of money. But when we do that, we want to make sure that we keep our costs as manageable as possible so that as you grow more fee income, you have more flow through. At this point in time, I mean, just to give you a sense, we do have shared services and bits and pieces, something a bit in India, being Vietnam, being China. So there are ways to look at some of those things that we can do together to enhance the synergy and as we continue to look at platforms, especially in some of the capabilities in the developed markets.

There are ways where we can bring together the back and the meter offices of some of this institution. I mean, they can continue to be entrepreneurial and run the business. But areas that we can find cost energies. That's, I believe, is a good way to drive EBITDA flow through as we look at some of these acquisitions. But we need to make sure that the whole at the center itself, we have to be strong in terms of our tech infrastructure, our financial systems, our world processes has to be seamless. So as you do more botan type of deals, there is better flow through at the margins. And then we go to Toronto after Brandon. Morning. Brandon from city. Just on the warehousing or assets, is this going to be pretty much recurring?

Is the matter that you're doing and how do you see that impacting our RE and will you be, we start becoming more like the old capital land, the internet, or even the capital land development? So that's my first question. The second question would be on the head out in your listed reads. How should we look at your avenue in doing this? Because we have seen you dig us things some some reads and open market some giving out DIS and obviously that impacts the way of RE. So how should we look at that going forward? Thanks. I'll take the first and then maybe I'll pass it to Paul for Stakes.

No, the short answer is thank you for setting me up so I can walk through. It's not going to be CLD and it's not going to be all CL2.0. The difference is the means to an N is different. In the old days we buy we whole forever balance sheet. The difference today which is fundamental is the means to an N is because ultimately this gets turned into FUM (Funds Under Management) and FRE (Fee-Related Earnings). So if I'm got 100% capital out in order for us to agree to do that we have a product partner, one of our fund managers, one of our REATs. We have a country that says this is the right investment at the right time and we all sign up to this.

And within the next x-months it's got to come off. Otherwise people are held accountable. That's the subtle but fundamental difference from 2.0 to 3.0. Does that make sense? Yeah, ideally I did. Because you don't want it to turn into IP on balance sheet then it starts to show up here and it doesn't look right. You want it to be a strategic move where you are spending that dry powder but within a period of time the dry powder is used to convert it into what we all want. FUM (Funds Under Management) FRE (Fee-Related Earnings) the capital comes back down from 100 to 10 and we take that 90% that we get back and we send it out again.

That's the name of the game today. So before your 100 buys one asset, now my 100 I can buy 10 assets if I do that right and it's all scale. And if we do a cost properly that scale does not come at the expense of a 10-fold increase in cost. It comes perhaps at maybe 2, 3-fold increase in cost or even less. Then you really talk margin expansion and then you really talk big boyly where the best in class guys are running in. Does that make sense? Yeah. Maybe just answer that. So it is 6-12 months. Just in case the fund manages here I think we have 12 months. 6-12 months. But it's something we've done before. We obviously, life will guess was on balance sheet for a short while.

It's gone into our lodging fund. We had capital square Beijing going to a renminp fund after being on balance sheet for a short while. Australia credit fund, the credit program on balance sheet for a while flipped into a fund. I think for us this will be an active component and it's part of what we think having the strategic balance sheet is for. On the listed red side. So the numbers now we are actually pretty comfortable in many ways. Now with class at 24% a cent, at about 18%, actually most of our reds are now in that range of 18% to 24%. So actually, truth be told is we're fairly comfortable with our whole link level and the contribution that they have to the P&L. We do want to become more efficient. Thus why you've seen a little bit of movement here and there.

So for instance, the distribution in species, how we consider it. It's not something that we are planning to do to CICT three years in a row. I think we're being very selective and targeted depending on each read. So as some of the rates grow, we would not expect necessarily to need to sell or DIS any of their units. Because over time as they grow, our stakes will naturally come down even further. Some of the considerations we have is for instance, for example, for this DIS, one of the reasons we are comfortable doing CICT was because we've tracked historically how they've done every time we've done this. We've done this for CICT before. And we've seen that their recovery time because the free float of the stock is more than $10 billion. Actually, on a daily traded recover is very quickly.

So because of that we were comfortable, I think in this instance doing that. So I would say we are open to multiple tracks whether it is, we can find a strategic investor as in the case of capital and ASCOT trust, somebody willing to take a larger stake. That is our preferred mode. We are also open to direct sales on market or the DIS. So I don't think we're locked in. I would say the fundamental driver for us is when we look at each of our stocks, we want the share price to do well. And you can imagine the RITCOs tell us also multiple times they want the share price to do well. So we're very conscious of that. So I think going forward you will see these stakes come down. You will potentially see more distribution in species. But I think we will be very measured on how we do. Or maybe just in relation to the DIS we have a question from an online viewer, David, too.

The question is would management consider a dividend policy that includes an interim dividend payout? Do you like to? It is something that we have considered in the past and have discussed. I think it is certainly a consideration. At this current point as the business is still transforming and we are stabilizing our preference right now is to keep it to a single dividend during the year. But I would say in future year certainly that's something we may consider changing. Thank you. We're jump to Donald. I'm from Bangladesh, I have three questions and it's a piece of the domain. I have one for each of you. Andrew earlier you called out China and how we might see more evidence of recycling divestments this year.

We've heard this before last year. It was the same narrative. So my question to you is what has changed for you to be more optimistic this year on a year on your basis. Thanks. I'm looking at this here. I want to get to see how it might. I'll make a high level comment but the expert is sitting in the room. So I'd like to just give you a flavor of the change in the complexion in the China landscape. Last year we tried. It wasn't for lack of trying. But the reality was every time we looked at divestment or reduction it just did not. We didn't feel comfortable that the conditions were there. It was too unstable. We didn't have enough visibility.

What we sense is happening now based on recent events is the party. The government is turning its attention to the business sector, which is something we've been waiting patiently for for a long time. And we wanted to be able to call the floor and have confidence that the worst is behind us. And so when it comes to talking about buyers and sellers, if we can all agree that the conditions I least stable enough to come to a sensible, willing buyer willing seller basis that gives us an environment and a marketplace to transact fairly. And I don't want to jinx it but I think we have those conditions coming into focus this year.

It was much more clear last year. So even on monetary policy in terms of fiscal policy, the government seems to be taking steps to stabilize the economy and that trickles down to real estate. So the marketplace is taking shape and then we have to then decide on an asset level basis, which assets are right for us to do so. We have a list. We have a list of partners. In some cases we've told our partners, why don't we come back next year and talk again. So we are cautiously optimistic that we won't have to come back to UNIXT and say sorry conditions went right. We know we said what we needed to etc etc. Let me stop there.

Let me show you again, give you much better color on where we see the complexion in China today. Thanks for the question. I think Andrew is right. The key thing is we want to recycle, but we want to recycle right. We want to do things right by our investors. Last year we saw a lot of conditions. It was all very fluid. The key thing is there's a lack of bias. So when it's a bias market and you are rushing into recycling, then you may not get the best terms. We are not distressed. You can see from our balance sheet operating numbers. We are very steady. So we were looking at doing the right things. Last year we did recycle to a computer deal in January of a Beijing office asset to a semi with an insurance player.

At the end of three quarter. We also recycle an unbalanced sheet business part in Trudeau into another insurance platform. Sorry, a platform with insurance player. All at a positive portfolio gain. I think it's credit. It's credit to us to be able to be in a position to do the right things. Are we not committed to recycling? No. You can get us on the call every two days. It's all about recycling because we have a plan in place and we want to execute. But we are going to do things right. Now the second part of what Andrew said is true. If everyone is falling in China, there seems to be some green shoots.

We have all the private entrepreneurs. Last October that rash of monetary policies. And the hope is that come MPC in a couple of weeks time. That could be greater confidence in fiscal stimulus coming through. All this does make us feel a little bit more hopeful. And in China right now we are in that global deep-seek moment. And anyone who is invested in the Hong Kong or in the China Stock Exchange will be feeling better right now. At the end of the day we want to know that we have a very balanced negotiation with our sellers. We want to do any recycling because we want to do right by our investors.

A very short question I want to say we worked very hard to want to make sure that I think we communicated to the industry. We wanted to do a billion. We didn't get that. It's not because we didn't try. We wanted to make sure that we could achieve that we worked very hard. There are various reasons. Some market conditions. Some is just a proven process. At this point in time even from the buying entity. Just the timing is just so long that you have no control. Not trying to find excuses. It is what it is. We did communicate that that was the target. We didn't achieve that.

It seems like based on the progress that we discussed this year, things should be much better going forward. That's what I want to tell you. I answer your questions of Squaredy. I'm very quickly then. You can see on the mic. You also mentioned last year during the investor day. You caught out US as a possible destination for investment. When we look at the slides today, the focus largely in a pack. So it's the US thing of the window already or are we still looking at the US? No, no, US is almost every month. Janine is almost camping there. But I just want to call out. I mean, the US is market's big.

It is deep. It's complex. The asset management products are a lot more sophisticated than what we see in Asia. What we have in Asia. So when we look at platforms, we want to be sure again, what strategic capabilities are we going to have? Are we going to pay a fair price? And based on the products that they have, are we able to help to distribute? Because we want to be able to make sure that we are active and we can help the platform to grow. So that's how we look at the lenses. The market is big and we just do not want to rush. And I also mentioned earlier that are managers that are facing difficulties. So we want to make sure that you invest in the right team that can help us to drive the growth both for the platform and also for the group as a whole.

It takes a moment to break away to the perfect way to pull. And this is not mentioned across our program. You're looking to execute their number that we can lean on. Given that there's a lot of investments and expansions within APAC, the US is hard to see how cost is going to come down. Thanks. Yes. So it's a little bit hard to read it through our operating numbers precisely. I would say obviously, as I mentioned, the longer run rate target is about 50 to 75 million. I think if we're able to see sort of 20, 30 million savings this year, that would be great. You may not see it in the line items because some of the savings will come out of corporate activities. So the corporate line item will drop. I mean, one of the things in UC North Financial Dumbers is a corporate balloon.

The cost for corporate balloon this year. But that was partly because we had a $19 million write off, or not write off an impairment for our ERP implementation costs. We took that hit this year. But I wouldn't include that in sort of savings for what we're looking for. We're looking at run rate savings before that. So we would consider how we are organized, how we are streamlined for growth. Maybe where exactly all our office locations are. We have a multiple global presence. We're looking to see where we can optimize that. So you may not be able to necessarily narrow it down to any of the operating units because lodging is still growing. Private funds is still growing. But hopefully at least at some of these when you look at our corporate numbers, that's where you'll see some of that reduction. Thank you, Donald. We'll go to Derek and then to Wilson.

Derek DBS. Over here, please. Good morning, Jacob and Tim. Just a few questions. My first one is on M&A. You have announced too. But not really in-house them fully. You have just curious where are you comfortable doing a third before they are really in-house or digest them. Just wondering on that front. So meaning capital deployment, are you looking for more asset type rather than platform type in the immediate term? My second question is on hunting for deals. Are you looking separately, let's say versus your reach? Are you also potentially hunting together? Just want to talk about where are you in terms of buying at the real estate spectrum.

Then my last question is if I can, it's on the India-straight, or the GEO Sanji-friest dress. But I'm just curious whether that's the industry energy. Is there actually a platform strategy or is it going to be largely going to be still building up asset base? I'm just curious on that. Sure. We take India first. So I think your question is whether India is going to be more a platform driven strategy. So if you look at India business, the three asset classes, business parks, logistics and data centers, we do think that for logistics in particular, we have a very successful platform.

In a matter of six years, we are the third largest industrial developer in India. We are now at a point where we should start seeing monetization of our fund assets coming through. And we will do that by creating a new core fund. So that's definitely, so I think the platform there is well positioned to not only do industrial industrial, core industrial, but also other ancillary industrial incremental asset classes. Data centers, again, we have a very strong team. Currently the business sits within Clint. It has been one of the big drivers of NAV growth. We feel that it's not getting reflected in the share price. But definitely a strong team which helped us to get the hyperscale of contract going.

And we think we'll definitely are now well positioned with that credential to add more assets and more pipeline for growth. And the last part, of course, business parks. We do think Clint is the right vehicle for that. And we on the other hand have a development fund business. We have funds with GIC. We just lost your close to fund which has Japanese capital partners. So that can keep feeding Clint's growth significantly in the years to come in addition to what Clint doesn't its own. Derek, thank you for the question.

I suppose perhaps I will answer it in the more indirect manner. I think you have witnessed us looking at M&A for many years. And one of the lemmed transaction that we have done in the past was the merger with the standard single bridge. And if you could recall, it was a very successful integration that was put together the two teams within a short period of time after completion. So I want to give the assurance to everyone here that in terms of the integration or even in terms of the alignment. As a group, we are very well run. We know the drill very, very well. And we have demonstrated through our execution in the past that they can be done. And if you look at the transaction, the two M&A's, they are effectively in two different geography.

So we do have teams on the ground. These are different resources. So if you're looking at, it's not just a few of us sitting here who is working on the integration. I think the whole company, the different divisions are all coming together to ensure that there's proper alignment whether on the business side or even on the infrastructure or the support that we're giving them. And the question on whether the priorities to invest in platform or assets. I mean, the idea is to focus on growing income. If we look at assets, it's really to buy assets to feed the income growth whether the assets are ready to be the careritized to form a read or to be injected into fun.

So that's really how we look at it. It's not like the old capital and days where we were just by and keep the assets on the balance sheet. We expect our investment teams to call invest and the ability to set up the fund all these data into the KPIs. It's very clear, kind of run away. At the senior level, we know that's expectation for us to call invest as well. So that's very, very clear alignment and KPIs on what we need to do. We'll go to Wilson. Wilson.

Hi, morning, Wilson from Morgan Stanley. Just two questions. First is just like us about your outlook for FUM (Funds Under Management) growth for this year, giving expectations for higher for longer interest rates. It sounds like there are some growth opportunities coming through on the private site, Halber, and the listed site. Do you see an opportunity for your list up that from to grow, whether it be organically or through new listings? And on the second question, related to that would be on the recently announced MES market review. So new measures that came through given capital and large presence in the Singapore market, both in terms of stocks as well as in terms of activity when it comes to secondary fund placements and fundraising.

How do you see some of these new measures potentially impacting or even benefiting the overall group. Thank you. I think just on Andrew was going to take this one. So if you have growth, I think we look at it into France. There's the organic component. I think for those when we look at the private funds, we expect a fundraising to be stronger this coming year than last year. Last year was collectively as an industry, one of the weakest of the week is in over a decade for real estate private funds. So certainly we expect that to grow faster this year. But a number of new products that we think fit what the market is looking for. So for the private funds we say it when it's acceleration. For the listed rates, what we do have internal targets on that, I think it's much more market dependent.

Obviously last year the transaction for CICT for ION also having to catch a good market window. I think this year depending on how interest rates go, that would be that would tamper our expectations up or down on that. But certainly we would like to see a number of our rates grow and we know that they have investment opportunities that they are pursuing. But that one will largely be more market dependent. But overall when we look at the FUM (Funds Under Management) growth last year, we had about five billion in terms of organic growth. I think suddenly we would expect that number of higher in the coming year. I agree with Paul. But I would just add that if you will have noticed for those who you that follow our reads, we've been actively, all of the reads have been actively managing their gearing. So that's twofold.

One is to take cost down so that DPU is protected. But also if you look at it vis-a-vis, I think some of the peers we are better positioned to deploy. Without having to rely on equity. So I think on a relative basis which is where this is always important. We are well positioned as a listed fundhouse to take advantage of the opportunities that Paul speaks of. You will see the reads getting active role to recycle their assets as well. Reconcitute for assets that the FUM (Funds Under Management) may be location or have reached a full potential. And they may take the chance to recycle, sell it at a type of camp.

And then buying asset that's still undergoing chances for leasing up. So those are the things that you'll find or the review goes looking to do. If for instance the pressure on the share price, not at any of you, it's makes it difficult for them to do some of the capital market type transactions. I must say that if you look at the assets within the reads, generally asset qualities are there good location. And gives them a lot of flexibility to do. I can't remember. Class, how much last year?

Even though it treats at this count to a net, and that's how they continue to take the proceeds for sell it at a type of cap and then reinvesting. If you want to share anything about what you're seeing on the private funds are you, since you're new on your fund raising. After you said any of the pressure to deliver. Hello. Exactly one month into the role. I think in terms of fund raising especially in the private space. Clearly we call this a, I know it's not a motherhood statement, but it is a golden vintage for several institutionalized products. Well, looking into private funds. I think then the question is typically what we get is what's the allocation principle is if you compare to how alp are looking into the designer products, right, whether is it going to be sector specific countries can produce specific or is it going to be diversified or is it going to be provided liquidity.

So we're going to have a discussion on that point on product designs as well as formation, which I believe that given where we are today together with Suzanne we will be looking to work. Very exciting products that you see on the shelf soon. This is why you cannot sleep when you work for chicken. Maybe just a tackle Wilson's other question on the market review. So, suddenly we are waiting for more details and we're certainly hopeful that more will be done. I think the initial round has been positive. We do think the added flow and sort of the requirement for fund managers to put a certain amount into Singapore equities for the trade off and tax benefits.

We do think in particular we'll benefit our, our roots, particularly the larger ones. We think there will be some natural inflows either through ETFs or into them so they'll feel the benefit. Finally we hope that for some of our smaller entities as well we will make the efforts to market out to investors and family officers and new fund managers here to try and push the stock. So we do think there is positive in paying clearly as a fund manager and as a big part of the market cap here we would certainly like more to be done as I'm sure every listed stock hopes. So on the topic of new products. We do have a question from Jimmy CICC, our analyst from CICC. A development of the C reads market continues to rise. It's a management considering to accelerate the establishment of C-read to recycle our Chinese asset.

We working very hard. We can't go so fast as fast as what the regulatory approval process in China can allow us to do. We have time for one last question. You can get a mic to you. Thanks. You came from CLC. I just want to understand on the, uh, congrats on the wind gate and S-C capital partnership. I just want to understand during the one year of COT-SHIB right. What do you try to understand? To me, it felt too short. I felt like it could have taken longer.

Maybe because I'm not too familiar with it in the future. Do you have kids? You can. I do. I do. I pity them. Yeah, I know. So in terms of what are the things that we look for KPI when you look at them. And, and reversley, I would assume that there's a lot of suitors, uh, going off the them as well. So why would, why would capital N be their top choice? This son is like, you know, about finding your marriage partner. I think chemistry makes a difference. So we can get to us, uh, three, four years. I know, Pharaoh, for some time before we decided that we want to do a deal.

And how do we structure a deal that makes sense? And, you know, we meet each other so often. I try to, I try to melt, but not just me, me, the team. And it's not just meeting the team and getting our people to know their people. You need to enjoy being able to have a meal together. Have coffee together, talk about product, talk about ideas, talk about new funds. And if you can enjoy events, spending time and brainstorming on some of these things, it's not going to work. We won't try. Mr. Chad is not a new, uh, figure in the town. People do know him and various of us have, uh, interact with him. So it's not, not new. So it's a much easier to, to, to talk about, uh, but some of the newer S.M.

managers, um, especially in places like the U.S. Some of them I've done them for some years, but doesn't necessarily mean that you do them. So that comfort level takes time. It's, uh, yeah. My wife always complained to me that, uh, from the time of getting to know her to getting married to us four years. And that's why we can have three kids. Okay. I think that's a lovely question and a response to end this briefing. She couldn't find no remarks. The significant number is four years and three kids. Um, gentlemen, any final remarks before we do a wrap?

Uh, thank you for, for, for coming this year of execution. And thank you for the trust. And, uh, I hope to draw the various actions that you do. You're not here just to, uh, grab, uh, hate lines. It's not our intention. Of course, if we can do good views and there's a good hate lines to, to, to, for your to write about that's because it's a, because it's a good deal. And not because we are trying to, uh, uh, you know, push for growth, um, at all costs. And want to make sure that all the investors that invest with us can sleep peacefully and knowing that the company's in a good shape. And we are building, uh, the company well, uh, long run for the team, uh, for the investors as well. Thank you. Thank you, Chikun. Thank you, Andrew and Paul.

And that's a wrap. Thank you all for joining us. We wish you all the best for the rest of the year and we will see you soon. Have a good day.