FY 2025 Full-Year Results Briefing

This is Rachel here. Can we open the online doors at 9 45? We'll start the live streaming. Then we'll play the video all the way until 10 when it officially starts. Okay, so you want to open 9 45 instead of 9 50? Yes correct, 15 minutes before 9 45. Yeah, all right, good. Okay, so because the control button is also on your side, before you open, you make sure everything is all same and you can get in and see what you do and your microphone should be not open to the desktop, okay? Yes, we will make sure everything's okay in the ballroom.

So we just need your help to go live at 9.45. I'll leave the Zoom room open. If anything, you can top class on there, if not, what's it?

Yes, I'm on the admin panel

Oh, okay, click mark in now, is it?

Yeah, click there You're on our side now, thank you

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen Welcome to CDL's full year 2025

Then later I'll just say that for those who are in the room, you can kindly slam the QR code that is shown on the screen.

This is a hybrid briefing format. We will be having those joining us on live webcast as well as those here at the M Hotel Singapore. I think I better go and tell. At the Lin. M Hotel Singapore. recover. You know what I can say? And social, and social. I'm forecasting it's branding. Prophesying it's branding. So for today's briefing in line of CDL's commitment to environmental sustainability, we will not be providing printed materials. So instead, please scan the QR code on the screen to download or view the following documents which are all on your website.

Ladies and gentlemen, friends from the media, analysts, bankers, investors, and fellow CDL

colleagues. My name is Belinda, and I'm the head of investor relations and corporate communications at CDL. As we are still within the Chinese New Year celebration period, so I take this opportunity to wish everyone in this room a happy, healthy, and prosperous year. A hit sing-in-coiler, one shi ru yi, shan ti, ji yan kang. So on behalf of the CDL management, welcome to CDL's briefing on its un-audited financial results for the full year and the 31st December, 2025. Now this is a hybrid briefing format with both in-person here at the M Hotel Singapore and those joining us live on webcast and joining us virtually. So thank you all for being here with us this morning. For today's briefing in line with CDL's environmental sustainability conviction, we will not be providing printed materials. Instead, please scan the QR code on the screen to download

or view the following documents that were uploaded to SGXNet as well as our website before trading this morning. Now on this website you will find a copy of the detailed financial statement, a press release summarizing the key highlights of our FY2025 performance, a presentation deck that the management team will be using in a very short while. So for all our guests joining us live on webcast, you will similarly be able to download these documents which are available on CDL website. I would like to introduce to you our CDL management panel. In the centre, we have our Executive Chairman, Mr. Quack Ling-Bing. On his right, we have Mr. Sherman Quack, our Group CEO. On Chairman's left is Mr. Quack Xing, our Group Chief Operating Officer. And on his left, Mr. Chia Nian-Hong, our Group General Manager, and nearest to me, Ms. Yong-Yin Ming, Group Chief Financial Officer.

Now, the format of today's briefing will be in two parts. We will kick off with a presentation of some of the key highlights of our performance, followed later by a Q&A session with our panellists. So without further ado, I would like to invite Mr Sherman Quack, our Group CEO, to kickstart the presentation. Sherman, please. Good morning, everyone. Good to see you here again. Feels like the last endless briefing was a long time ago, but really it's every six months and happy to be here, Every year I see you, I have less hair, but good to see you all. This year, obviously, we're going to have more positive and upbeat results to report.

We started off with a slide that shows you the key achievements that we did last year as we committed to everyone. We were going to accelerate our capital recycling. We're happy to announce that we have achieved 2 billion in divestments. We were very selective in our acquisitions, so really what we invested were in three GLS sites in Singapore as well as a hotel in London in Kensington. And at the same time, I mean, you can see that last year was a very strong year for us in the Singapore local market. In terms of residential sales value, we achieved 4.35 billion, which is the highest in our Group 63 year history. So we're really pleased with that. The 1.657 number includes ECs as well. So if we use the corresponding number released by the URA, including ECs, it's about a 13% market share.

Actually it would be higher if we excluded ECs because last year we sold more non-ECs. And last year was good to see that the market came back with more stability and strength. last year the total developer new home sales was about 10,800 with a modest price increase of 3.3%. So this has really outpaced the three years preceding that where annual volume is about six to 7,000. And of course the high was in 2021, right? When we saw about 13,000 new home sales and a price growth of close to 11%. So actually we like that. I mean, we think that that's a sign of a more stable, healthy market where moderate price growth, but the volumes have really come back. And we've also seen that the core central region, the CCR has also come back in favor. I mean, there were a couple of years where really the RCR and the OCR

were getting all of the action. But last year was good to see that the CCR was finding favor again. I think it's changed in lifestyle. And of course, whichever region you're talking about, I mean, the bulk of the buyers tend to be Singaporeans, majority Singaporeans or PRs. So there's a very small percentage of foreigners buying. And that's same with Newport residents as well, which I will profile later. And across our commercial portfolio, you can see that Singapore office, Singapore retail, and of course our also sizable UK commercial, which is the three commercial buildings we have there, all showing very stable and strong occupancies. And our hotels managed to eke out a higher, slightly higher rev par, even though globally the performance was quite mixed last year. So in terms of our FY 2025 financial highlights, we have revenue of 3.6 billion,

which was a 9.7% increase from the year before. And obviously we have a really nice padme of around $630 million, up over 200%. Padme would have been higher, so-called even closer to $800 million, not for the fact that we thought it would be a prudent time to do some impairments. So we did $155 million of impairments and foreseeable losses, mainly for our two China commercial properties. One was this Shenzhen, which is a business park, and business parks are primarily office in nature. So the commercial market is really struggling very badly in China, which should not come as any surprise to all of you. And then the other one is also for commercial complex in Shanghai. So that was a bit of a pity. Otherwise, we really could have reported an even stronger set of results. But nonetheless, we're still happy at where

we have arrived at. You will see that actually the gap between our NAV and our, well, I'll use the RR NAV, the one way fair value IPs and hotels, I mean, is narrowing. I mean, despite the fact that we did a lot of capital recycling last year and had contracted divestments of two billion, but the NAV has gone up because as we sell, and especially above book value, we're really crystallizing a lot of value And obviously that goes in a retained earnings switch drives up the NAB. So really glad to see, you know, us narrowing this gap and unlocking the value. And as some of you would have seen this morning when we released our results, I mean, hopefully the dividend comes as a nice, you know, as a welcome news to our shareholders. We proposed a final dividend, ordinary dividend of 25 cents. added to the three that we paid in the interim is 28 cents, which is a 40 percent payout ratio. And

at the same time, we've also committed to a new dividend policy because in the past it was, while as management we had always articulated that we would try to pay out a third every year, but it was really never formalized in our policy. So we thought I think it'd be a good thing to really show our commitment to sustainable shareholder return. So we will pay a minimum of 35 percent of reported patenting every year. And share price last year really has rebounded nicely. I mean, of course we had some of our own internal issues earlier part of the last year, but we're glad that we managed to get them resolved. And despite the macroeconomic challenges we pushed forward. Global portfolio, obviously the one, you know, worth looking at is the bottom line, because that's where we fair value. so you get a full sense of how assets like Singapore has always mixed up around half of our asset base,

with the rest spread towards UK, China, and others. Yeah, so as mentioned earlier, I mean, we really strove hard to ensure that we recycle capital at a higher pace, especially since we wanted to try to bring our gearing down. Gearing did go up in the end because we ended up winning more GLS in Singapore we expected and of course we had that hotel acquisition but all in all gearing set a manageable level and we will target in the midterm towards bringing it down you know in a very significant manner. So just to give you a snapshot of the last couple of years from 2023 to 2025 what our capital recycling focus has been like. Most years the blue bar, the investments acquisitions will usually surpass the yellow bar but last year we were

fortunate I mean where the gold bar actually was higher and again that was because of our efforts to accelerate our recycling. Two things I want to mention here so one some of you would have heard me say this before is that the gold bar includes all the land we buy in Singapore, but obviously when we develop into residential and sell the individual units, that's not in the blue bar. So it's a bit of a mismatch and it works against us in a way, but it's a way to be very disciplined. The second thing to mention is that sometimes you will see now results financially. In our accounting, there may be some difference in terms of when the acquisitions or the investments happen but we don't double count. So an example is a Cintian D, right? I mean we signed the land tender with the government and were awarded the land in December 2024, but we only made payment like in January, right? So I count that in our acquisitions in 2024,

but cash-wise the cash only left our balance sheet and therefore financially P&L-wise is shown in 2025. Likewise last year as you know we announced a bevy of divestments and all were completed in 2025 except for a Keysight R in Sentosa. That one was so when the deal goes hard when I sign and it goes hard you know we show it as a divestment so that was in December last year so just three months ago but we actually completed in February. So again a bit of a this accounting mismatch but As I said, we don't double count, so we show that strictly in the year that we announce it. That's the year that it gets shown that, but sometimes on the P&L may be a bit different. This is our Singapore residential launch pipeline, so really happy that we have a launch pipeline of 1,820, and we look forward to hopefully replenishing a little bit more land this

year even though we are very fortunate to have won one of the first few tenders of the GLS tenders of the year which is Tanjung Ru which is an amazing location and we're very excited to unveil our project there and that's a 90-10 JV with our main contractor Waha and as you all know the other sites will acquired last year which is Woodlands Drive 17, Senjia Close and Lakeside and Lakeside will be launching in the second half of this year. And you can also see some of the launches on the right-hand side that we had launched to last year one this year. One was the Ori in Topayo, and that has done really, really well above our expectations. There's Zion Grand, which also did really well. So I was very relieved and pleased to see that. And of course, a Newport, which thankfully has also done well, which we launched in January. So this is Newport residence, you know, this is, you know, part of a mixed use complex.

It used to be the Fujis Rockstar, so revamping it into residential at the top, service departments in the middle, and office, you know, in the lower third of it. And it is freehold and really glad that I think we have achieved good sales. The average pricing that we've achieved so far. I know there's been a bit of confusion in market because the 337 was actually what we've priced it at and target to achieve for the whole project. So currently it's around 3,200 there about. So that's the actual pricing. So sorry if there was a bit of confusion in the way we wrote the news released. But really excited about this project. We really designed it to be a super luxury, ultra luxury residence. And of course, I'm still waiting for that unique buy, the contact us to buy that very special penthouse unit,

that 13,000 square foot single story penthouse unit with dedicated lift just for that unit and dedicated car parts as well. So hopefully we will secure that buy in the course of the next few months. Then there's our commercial property, which our commercial properties in Singapore have been very resilient. The last couple of years, the office and retail markets have been very stable, both from a rental and occupancy perspective. So good to see that our buildings are doing well as well. One big news was the strong pre-leasing commitment that we did at Union Square Central, which is the former Central Mall. And we bought Central Square next door from Fai's Hospitality Trust. It was total of three sites. I'm all committed it together and developing this new mixed use development that's gonna be very exciting when it's done. So the office component, we have leased out 52%

to a single tenant, a government agency. So really happy with it for a very long lease. And, but the project will only complete in around 2029. So, a couple more years to go. And then we have also driven AEI's, as you all remember, in 2018 we did the AEI for Republic Plaza, Tower One. So including the lobby and everything, that was really big works. That took us 18 months, you know, and around 60 million to get that AEI done. So that was a very, very tough effort. But, you know, really happy. We've seen very positive rental reversions after doing that. And so we thought, you know, we can't leave out its young, smaller sibling, which is a Ripon Plaza Tower too, so we've done that now, and more or less completed AEI, just progressively doing the LIF modernization. So really happy with that too, and committed occupancy is 100%. Then there's City Square Mall, where we also went through a big AEI.

I hope some of you have been to see it since we've completed, and very excited with the mall and how it looks now, and it seems to have received very positive feedback from all the visitors. Global hotel portfolio, and we continue, I think, to look towards refurbishing some of our hotels that are located in strong locations so that we can continue to optimize our portfolio. So we have M Social Resort Penang, as well as M Social Hotel New York downtown, both of which used to be branded Millennium. So these are the hotels and then of course we have ongoing development in Sunnyvale which is in California and that's for 263 room hotel as well as we're currently undergoing the AEI for this millennium hotel that we have in Knightsbridge on Sloane Street. Global living sector portfolio it's gone down slightly because you know we did sell off our Sunnyvale PRS

So Sunnyvale multifamily asset. So it's around 3.7 now versus 3.9 before Singdollars, but it's still a sizeable portfolio. I have to admit, we have not monetized it as fast as we should have. Really us building up this was firstly, a diversification for CDL other than doing our usual residential for sale and offices and retail for lease. This was something that was, the living sector is something that we really believe in, and it's something that plays up to our expertise, right, of development, property development, asset management, as well as hospitality, right, service. So we really focused on investing this sector over the last couple of years, and I built it to actually, I would say, a very good scale. And there are many assets in there. performing very well. But, you know, we did this not only to enhance recurring income in a diverse

asset class, but really was also to seed our fund management. So, you know, I have to admit the fund management efforts have been slower than we would have liked, but we are very, very focused on that. So this year I hope to really accelerate that so I can come back with good news to you by the time the half-year results swing around. But it's a very, very good and nice portfolio for us, and lots in there that we can play around with from a private and public markets perspective. I thought I'd just put up this slide also because I realised that in reading the analyst research reports, many of you occasionally will write about these sites. So yes, this is what we call legacy. It's not super old, but it is from acquired between 2013 to 2017. Okay, and there's an external development manager

that's managing all these projects. And we have to say that this portfolio has underperformed. So therefore we endeavor to recycle this as quickly as we can. You will see that we have sold a ransom swarf, So we did that at the end of 2024. So we're happy. That was sold for about 70 million pounds. But, and then of course Sydney Street was a development where it's nine units and we have gradually sold that. And so all those nine units are sold out. But there are all these other sites that we have to clear out, right? There's Pavilion Road, which is currently operating as a car park. And that one should give us very strong gains because we are receiving a lot of very outsized offers for that property. It's very near the Harrods. Then there's Stag Brewery, which is a 1 million square foot of land development in Richmond in London. Stag Brewery is probably the site of this brewery operations,

hence it's called Stag Brewery. It's in Mort Lake, Richmond. So this one, as you all would have seen in the news as well, last year in 2025, We finally got planning approval after 10 years. So, you know, it's now that, you know, we got the planning approval, we want to, definitely we don't want to build it out. So we're gonna move to see how we can monetize this as quickly as we can. Development house is actually an office building that has, you know, permits for redevelopment. But, you know, we're assessing again, how best to unlock value there. Technically riverside is a bit sad. There was a land that we bought and then we actually have built out and completed the buildings with a total of 224 residential units, but unfortunately 148 remain unsold. So it's something that we really have to accelerate more and some things we're looking at are potential bulk sales of the units to buyers that may be interested.

And then lastly, Chesham Street is a very upmarket place in Belgravia. It's six units, but again, took a very, very long time and we only sold half of it. So again, all this, with ransoms, it was almost close to a billion, so now it's about a $1 million, it's about $800 million that's sitting on a balance sheet. So this is something that we are very committed to unlocking the value there and monetising it. So I just wanted to flash this up since I know it's been mentioned quite a few times. Won't spend too much time here, but last year we were also grateful to have received industry accolades and we did make a sizeable donation, us in partnership with our chairman, you know, Kwak-Niming. So together we donated the SIT and there's a administrative building there named in favor of him, in honor of him. and of course we also launched a CDL EcoTrain at City Square Mall which has been very very popular

with a lot of visitors especially those with interest in sustainability and of course the rest of the accolades on the right. As mentioned earlier we endeavoured to give sustainable shareholder returns. You know I this was some of the feedback that we have gotten from investors which is why is there no clear dividend policy articulated. So I think we really discussed it as management and a board and we decided that look, let's really commit to paying minimally 35% based on our reported padme. Of course this year for 2025, we have decided to do 40% payout ratio. And I think yes, I mean, there are some companies out there that probably have more aggressive dividend payout ratios. But I think we also need to ensure that we leave some flexibility. There's always a balancing act between us using the cash,

the pay down debt, or to deploy for new acquisitions and investments. So we thought it would give us some flexibility, but at least it's a flaw and it's a commitment to our shareholders and it's something that's sustainable, right? I mean, if I go out announcing some super high number, it may come back to trip me up in the future. So, yeah, we're happy to announce a total dividend of 28 cents for the year, and a record TSR last year of 62%. Last slide from me before I pass the year, Ming. We continue to look towards our value creation and our value unlocking. We have to continue to drive forward with our capital recycling. As I've mentioned to you all before, This is not a one-off that we're gonna do for one year or two years. From now on, capital recycling has been every, much a part of our business as property development and asset management, right? I mean, we don't just develop properties to sell

or manage our office and retail portfolio. I mean, you know, we're also in a business or investment, right, I mean, things like the Osaka Hotel, you know, we buy it and two years later, we sell it for, you know, 60, 70% of our valuation. That's a sign of a good investor and we will not hesitate to monetize opportunities like that. So really we have to, capital recycling is business as usual for us and to me it's core, okay, because it's part of what we do. And in portfolio optimization we continue to optimize and see where are the geographies and asset classes we need to be in. Fund management, as I mentioned earlier, something we do need to pay more attention to and put in more effort into accelerating. Need to continue to keep our eyes focused on the ROE, although that's more of a midterm thing because I need all the other pieces to fall in place and then ROE will take care of itself. Capital management, we're still prudent about managing our cash, our gearing, recurring income.

We continue to drive that and that's been helped also by our living sector portfolio. Diversification is still important. Singapore is an important market to us. We'll always remain probably our biggest market, but we do need to have a diversification across geographies and asset classes, and of course, sustainability, right? Something we have to do our part for the world. And I guess before I hand it over to Yiming, also I may as well just mention this, since it's also people in the market have gotten wind of it, is that sometime in around September, last year we engaged a global advisory firm to help us do a strategic review of our entire strategy and operations. We are still in the process. The first step that they did was do an investor perception audit, so reach out to a slew of buy side and sell side in order to really get feedback for us, right? How are we viewed by the market, by shareholders,

by investors, by analysts? Where are their perception gaps? And this feedback has been extremely helpful and has allowed us to then journey on together with them. And so for management and the board to really go on this journey where we want to come up with something that will close this perception gap and that will give you even better guidance as to where CDL is heading towards and allow you to measure us and hold us more accountable for what we say we're gonna do. So we're still in the process, so I can't talk too much about it. But in terms of timeline, I hope that by no later than the middle of the year, by June, no later than June, I hope we'll be able to announce something to everyone. Okay, thank you very much. On to Yiming and I'll field your questions at Q&A later.

Thank you, Chairman. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. So I'll start off with this chart. So please do report this growth in all three operating segments across all three key metrics, revenue, EBITDA and PBT. And three is my favorite number. Okay, for revenue, the group reported a 9.7% increase in revenue for FY2025. This slide shows revenue by each segment. While PD contributes 33% to total revenue in FY2025, the increase in revenue is actually attributable to this segment, which increased by 24%. The steadfast execution and successful sale launches are commendable and now Singapore PD segment deliver a stellar performance. Projects that contributed included the MIST, Norwood Grant and Union Square Residences as well as the sale of Ransom's Wharf and the office component of Honglian City Centre in Suzhou. DPs that are joint ventures are equity accounted for and the revenue do not include these JV projects. On a light for light basis, the revenue from these JV projects would have contributed 1.8

billion to 2025 revenue. Hotel operations takes up 46% of total revenue and increase 1.7% in FY 2025, following a 1.3% increase in REVPA. The increase in REVPA is due to Australia and New Zealand portfolio, New York hotels, rest of Europe with the acquisitions of Hilton Paris Opera in May 2024 and Holiday Inn Kensington in December 25. One outstanding hotel is also in UK, which is a bit more mainframe. Please go visit that if you visit the UK. This more than covers the poorer performance in Singapore, where Revpar decreased 5.5%, due to fewer large-scale events, higher room supply, which intensified price competition. One of the other hotels that we didn't do as well is our Beijing hotel, which is bigger performance because of the China economy slowdown. For investment properties, the revenue is driven by higher contribution from City Square Mall, as well as from so long shopping center in Phuket, following reaping the benefits of our AEI programs. On EBITDA, EBITDA stands at 1.5 billion for FY 2025,

43% higher than 2024. EBITDA demonstrates strong cash generation and is one focus area we look at very closely. Our target is typically a 1 billion annual EBITDA for healthy cash generation. This outperformance 1.5 billion EBITDA was due to our capital recycling gains. PD property development EBITDA increased 81% to 261 million for 2025. Other than the projects earlier mentioned for revenue contributors, the other JV projects that contributed to EBITDA included the fully sold EC Copen Grant, which obtained TOP this year, Canning Hill Piers, the ORI, CASIA as well as Temple Soup Grant. For FY25, Sherman mentioned we made a 80.5 million of foreseeable losses. For hotel operations, EBITDA increased 35% for FY2025. This EBITDA included capital recycling gains from JW Merritt and Comfort Inn, excluding such capital recycling gains and impairment right-backs, hotel operations EBITDA drops slightly by about 5% with cost pressures as GOP margins fell 1.4%

due to weaker performance largely in Singapore and vice of Asia. For investment properties, they are the biggest contributor to EBITDA, contributing 46% of total EBITDA. This segment saw substantial capital recycling gains offset by impairment losses relating to two commercial properties in China, one of which is slated for sale and has been transferred to asset health for sale. Notwithstanding, our resilient performance of our commercial properties and the growing living sector reflected about 8% of our performance in this asset performance. Next, we'll move on to PBT by segment. The explanations are largely similar to EBITDA earlier. PBT more than doubled to 772 million. Once again, investment properties is the biggest contributor. And all three segments reported improvements in PBT versus FY 2024. This job is big. For hotel and investment properties, they improve by 33% and 145% respectively. And property development improve multiple flows. This is due to the fact that profits

from property development is lumpy in nature. So in last year, there was no eCTOP, there was high financing costs and there was construction delays. 2025, we have a TOP for one of the EC, as well as very good construction progress and the softer financing environment. PBT is impacted by financing costs. On financing costs, our gross interest expense has decreased by 12% to 520 million. We hope to see this trend further down in 2026. Sounds like a broken record, we depreciate our investment properties. And in challenging circumstances like today, where we encounter valuation hate wins, I think this conservative accounting policy of depreciating does benefit in these benefits. On capital management, continue to have strong and robust fundamentals. We have a balance that expiry and currency profiles. For bonds that expiry in 2026, we will look to issue new bonds. Gearing at 71%, this service last year at 69. So we mentioned other than the 1.7 billion acquisitions for 3GRS and the hotel, we also

paid for CNT site as well as capbacks on our investment properties. So this offset by our recycling efforts of 2B that Sherman mentioned earlier. of 2.1 billion with uncommitted and joint credit facilities of 4.2 billion, very, very strong position. But if you wonder why is that the cash dropped from 3.1 to 2.1 is because we have set aside money in December 2025 to pay for Cintin tea. So interest cover also improves to 3.6 times on the back of stronger EBITDA. So for fixed debt, we are at 44% down. 70% of Singapore debt is actually fixed and 11% of GPP debt is fixed. So this puts us in an advantageous position, we are able to assist better opportunities or rate cuts by the Bank of England. Average borrowing costs went down nicely to 3.7%. And the last slide, for FX rates, we do not take speculative position. We do a lot of natural hedging. So we are very comfortable with a 77% natural hedge. I think if one were to ask why is the Raming Pea hedge a little bit low, and we all know that we cannot borrow for land in China,

is why that's a slightly bigger exposure for Roving P. So other than that we acknowledge there's challenges in USD currency, there's volatility, but we're managing it, it's definitely within our risk tolerance levels as well. So with that I hand over back to Belinda. Thank you very much Sherman and Yiming for the presentation. We would like to move to the second part of today's briefing which is on the Q&A. Please feel free to ask your questions and my colleagues are standing around the room with microphones and if you have any queries, I see a hand, please raise your hands and they will come to you. But for those who are joining us on webcast, you may pose your questions by clicking on the question tab. So before asking your questions, maybe please request that you introduce yourself and the organisation that you represent. And okay, so I'm going to just go straight into opening up the floor.

Okay, wow, okay. I have everybody here first. So I'll just go down the first row first and I'll go the second row. Maybe we'll take with Mervin first. Yeah. Hi, Mervin from JP Morgan. Congrats on the strong results and strong share price performance, which I think reflects the market's confidence in your leadership, Shervin. Two questions from me. I'm sure you received a lot of feedback from investors in terms of how it can maximize value improve operations. Is there any particular feedback that resonates with you the most and where's the main perception gaps? Second question is on cost of debt, significant drop to 3.7%, any guidance for this year and if you were to sell your UK assets, the $800 million, how much is the current UK debt at this point in time? Thanks. and appreciate the kind and encouraging comments.

Yeah, I mean, we received a lot of very detailed feedback, which was extremely helpful and some from, you know, the analysts seated in this room, those whom, you know, the firm picked. And there were, you know, many more gaps, perception gaps than we realized. So, and I think certainly one of the things we look towards doing is right-sizing our portfolio as well as ensuring that we re-tweak our so-called capital allocation priorities from a geography and asset class perspective. So that's something we're still in discussion. And there may be some changes that may be coming up. And also, of course, I think one of the things that came through very strongly from this exercise was on the disclosure side. While I think, you know, I have traditionally viewed us as a company with pretty good disclosure,

I think we've been pretty open and transparent about all of our activities and our results and the things we are doing and our strategic priorities. But certainly one thing that we could do better, I think, is to provide more signposts, more way finding for investors to show them how we're going to progress forward in the next couple of years, you know, and to really so that they can really, you know, figure out for themselves if CDL executes on everything that they have laid out, okay, or what will the, you know, CDL of three years or five years from now, what would that look like? And do I like what that looks like, right? So that can also form part of an investor's, you know, so-called determination of whether to invest in our stock, so I think that's the fair thing to do, is to provide stronger guidance and more concrete numbers behind it. So these are the things that we kind of got out from it. Yes, on a more micro level, on strategy side, there are also quite a few things, feedback

that I think we take very seriously. Obviously we can't talk too much about it right now, but it will probably involve rebalancing some of our portfolio too. Second one I think you mean you can take? Do you want to use mine? For cost of debt guidance, I don't expect anything more than 3.5% and that's probably conservative and for UK debt portfolio, I mean we do central treasury as we have said many times. So we will obviously, unless we have some good investments, would obviously go towards reducing that in NTT. Okay, on the first row, maybe Derek, I'll take yours and then I'll move to the second row. Thanks for the opportunity. I guess just on the results itself, a bit of, it's good record pet meat, but just a bit of noise over there. If you strip out all the one-offs investments,

and some impairments, et cetera, what is the core path needed that we are looking at? That's the first question. Okay, Derek, good morning. Before I let Yiming answer that, I just want to emphasize again, okay, which I had mentioned just now, I think it's not, I don't think it's appropriate to look at these so-called capital recycling activities as a one-off, because firstly, as I mentioned, this is gonna be business as usual for us going forward. If I, so aside from developing property and managing my office and retail, I mean if I invest well in something and I sell it two years later for a big profit, so that doesn't count towards my earnings, I mean, as I said, CDL is also a good and astute investor. Yes, I mean we've had some missteps over the years, but generally I think we've done well on our investment. So I think we really shouldn't keep seeing that as non-core And likewise, on the flip side, right, I mean, if I, you know, invest in a commercial property

in China and it does really badly and I take impairments and write-downs, that should be held against me. We should be held as a management team accountable for what we've done, right? If we keep stripping off all these one-offs, right, then it would be very easy. I would just focus on doing property development and everything else is non-core, right? So again, I would be careful about how we use that term, but I get where you're coming from. you Ming answer that. Sorry, it doesn't like the question clearly, yeah. But having said that, yeah. So we report about $630 million of PEPME, so if I were to exclude divestments as well as impairment losses, which we have made substantially, it's probably in the range of about $100 million. So as we mentioned, from a management perspective, we don't look at that as a key performance measure. We really look at EBITDA and we look at reported PEPME and ROE. So I guess that probably contextualizes how we look at things as well. Yeah, that's fair. I mean, to your point as well, you're going to link dividend payouts to reported patent yield.

So, but I guess what you going forward, we give, and you alluded to more corporate governance as well, would you, I guess, formalize the divestment targets and your outlook? Yeah, so capital allocation as well as divestment targets are part of this internal strategic review that management and the board will go through is going through with this advisory firm and so therefore you know we are excited by mid-year to hopefully announce something that will be that will be well received by shareholders and investors. Okay and just one last question if I may on you know we put a UK development UK legacy platform $100 million dollars, Mort Lake State Brewery is in there as well. So can we just take it that you are planning to divest it entirely? Sure answer yes. Derek, the intention is to divest that whole portfolio. So we are working

on it. I mean some of that stuff, as I said, one has already divested the site for 70 million £10, ransoms worth. But we will accelerate the so-called monetisation of this portfolio. This year certainly we want to accelerate this faster. Okay. Let me just move the second row. Shen, maybe you go first and then I'll move down. Thank you. Hi, this is Shen from Goldman. Just to follow up on dividends, right? The 25 cents is seen as ordinary and is that absolute level that you will keep going forward? Because that actually implies 220 million, which is above your call pet me. So then the second question is then on divestment, is that also your underwriting assumption that there will be a minimum level of divestment gain going forward? So, it was about the dividend, sorry.

I was thinking about your second question and then I suddenly forgot the first one. Okay, so the dividend, the final dividend is 25, but added to the interim is three, right? So it's 28 cents for the year. So a 40% payout ratio. And you are asking? So most companies will keep the ordinary flat. That means if let's say my model is 25. Okay, I got it. So I went through one of those moments where I was thinking about something else. Yeah, in the past CDL had this habit of declaring a lot of so-called special dividends. Our interim is special, there's a special final and an ordinary final. I mean, I think we discussed it at length at the board yesterday and management's recommendation to probably do away with this terminology of special. I mean, it's really not that special. I mean, we've committed to it now, in our dividend policy, right, of a minimum of 35% or more.

So I think anything within that range should not be considered special. It's something that we have committed to doing, so it's an ordinary dividend. Now, if we were to do some outsized dividend, so we'll call it special then, but that remains to be seen. It depends how we execute, how well, and how fast we execute our activities. Unlike another developer who has made a bold announcement, I will not be pegging our dividend to the gross divestment value or something. But again, our reported patentee captures all that in. So I think that's a very fair metric to use when we have pegged our dividend policy to it. So, and the second part was, you know, since I was still in Twilight Zone just now. Yeah.