2023 Annual Results Presentation

Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us in person to review Hong Kong Land's results for 2023. We are also pleased to welcome those of you participating online. I'm Robert Wong, the Chief Executive of Hong Kong Land, and with me is Craig Beatty, our Chief Financial Officer. Following our conversation or presentation, there will be an opportunity for questions. For those of you watching via the webcast, please send us your questions through the website and we will include them in the Q&A sessions. As you're aware, this is my last presentation as a CEO of Hong Kong Land. I would like to thank all of you over the years in the interest of Hong Kong Land and many wonderful questions that you have asked us from time to time over the last almost eight years. And over the years, I'm very pleased that you have not been posting very difficult questions

to me. And so please today, continue the very good culture in the past. Today I will take you through some key updates and results highlights for investment properties and development properties before turning over to Craig to cover financial highlights. I will then conclude with an update of the Group's sustainability and other corporate initiatives as well as our outlook followed by Q&A. Before I move into the full year results in detail, let me first provide a brief update on our key business segments along with observations in each of our key markets. In Hong Kong, geopolitical economic economies' uncertainties This has negatively impacted office leasing momentum. Slower pre-leasing activity in new office supply, predominantly in decentralized areas,

has resulted in an increase in vacancies across the city. In Central, subdued capital market activity has also dampened office demand from the financial services and asset management sectors. The group's central portfolio vacancy continued to outperform the office market both across Hong Kong and within the central district. This is driven by flight to quality demand from new tenants attracted to the portfolio's central locations, premium offerings, and strong sustainability credentials, as well as the retention of existing tenants. On luxury retail, trading conditions at the landmark have improved significantly compared to 2022.

Flagship tenant sales have largely returned to pandemic levels. Moving on to Chinese mainland, due to uncertainties across the broader Chinese economy, sentiment for the residential market remained weak during the year. Presales at the group's residential development slowed given struggles in the broader market, although performance was more resilient relative to the general market due to the group's focus on the premium segment in top tier cities. Turning to retail, there was a good re-cluffery in tenant sales in 2023 at both WF Central in Beijing and One Central Macau. In Singapore, office-leading momentum in the CBD

has moderated as a result of uncertain macroeconomic conditions. The group's portfolio continues to perform well due to flight to quality demand as well and a tight office supply in the CBD area. On the residential side, the market sentiment also moderated in the second half of 2023 after a strong start to the year as a result of higher interest rates and the cumulative impact of cooling measures. Pre-sales as the group's newly launched Tambussu Grant project in April this year was satisfactory, turning to an overview of 2023 results. The group's underlying profits in 2023 was US$734 million, down 5% compared to the same period last year.

Profits from the group's investment properties business increased mainly due to improved performance from our luxury retail portfolio and Singapore office. This was partially offset by reduced contributions from the Hong Kong office. Total contributions from development properties declined largely due to challenging market conditions on the Chinese mainland. Loss attributable to shareholders was US$582 million, which included a net loss of US$1.3 billion, arising mainly from revaluations of the group's investment properties portfolio due to negative rental growth and a slight increased in capitalization rates for Hong Kong office. In terms of underlying earnings per share, the group generated 33.15 US cents while the

overall loss per share was 26.29 US cents after the impact of non-trading items. The net asset value per share as of 31 December 2023 was US$14.49. The group financial position remains strong with net debt declining to US$5.4 billion at the end of 2023. The board has declared a final dividend of US$16 per share, which brings the total dividend for the full year to 22 cents per share, unchanged from the prior year. I shall now turn to investment properties. Turning first to our Hong Kong office portfolio.

Performance from the office portfolio remain resilient and continue to outperform the overall market. Rental reversions were negative in 2023 with average office rent decreasing to $106 Hong Kong dollars per square foot per month from $111 Hong Kong dollars in 2022. Physical vacancies at the end of 2023 increased to 7.4% from 4.9% at the end of 2022. On a committed basis, vacancy was 6.8% at the end of 2023,

compared with 4.7% at the end of 2022. By comparison, vacancy based on existing lease commitments across the Hong Kong central grade A office market was 9.9% and increased from 8.8% at the end of 2022.

The weighted average lease expiry at the end of 2023 was 3.8 years, compared with 4 years at the end of 2022. The portfolio's top 30 tenants, who occupied close to half of our total office net leaseable area in Hong Kong, had a weighted average lease expiry of 5.4 years. At the end of 2023, 31% of our Hong Kong office portfolio is subject to expiration or rent revisions in 2024, of which only 13% were subject to expirations, including concluded renewals and rent reviews up to the end of February 2024. has actually increased to 19% of our portfolio with approximately 7% relating to expirations

and the remainder to rent revisions. To put some context into our numbers, I would like to dive further into the overall central vacancy and supply dynamics. Since 2017, the group's central portfolio vacancy has outperformed the broader central market as well as Hong Kong overall. This is in Park, due to the unique ecosystems, including top-notch ancillary facilities and strong tenants community the group has cultivated over the years. In addition, the group's active lease management in recent years, its ability to respond to tenants changing preferences and expectations, flight to quality from new tenants, and modest

expansion demand from existing tenants have all contributed to this outperformance of the broader market. The group continues to innovate by introducing new concepts and improving its service. This includes the significant efforts made on delivering sustainability initiatives to meet the rising tenant's expectations. Based on data from JLL, from now until 2028, an estimated 9.3 million square feet of new office space is expected in Hong Kong, of which 1.3 million will be in central. to put this into context, the existing space in central at the end of 2023 was 24 million square feet and this new stock represents only around 5% of the total stock in central in 2028.

Turning to the lemma, which continues to the preeminent luxury shopping and fine dining destination in Hong Kong. In 2023, trading conditions improved significantly at the landmark. Average rent increased to $203 HKD per square foot per month due to a combination of higher tenant sales, positive base rent reversions and the phasing out of temporary rent relief. In terms of occupancy, the landmark remains effectively fully occupied. sales has increased by an estimated 40% year-on-year, largely on par with historical high achieved in 2018. In April 2023, the group successfully debugged 45, a multi-concept social destination occupying

the 44th floor and the rooftop of Gloucester Tower, spanning 20,000 square feet, 45 houses, five premium F&B concepts. 45 demonstrates the group's commitment to deliver exceptional experiences to customers and to demand central status as an attractive destination for African visitors. Turning now to our Singapore office portfolio, the group's office portfolio continues to perform well, driven by flight to quality demand and limited new supply, despite moderating sentiments due to global economic uncertainties. Average rents continue to show growth while occupancy remains resilient. Average gross range across our Singapore portfolio in 2023 was 10.9 Singapore dollars per square

foot per month, a 3% increase from the 10.6 Singapore dollars in 2022. Positive rental reversions were achieved during the year. Real vacancies across the portfolio was 1.9% compared with 7.5% at the end of 2022. On a committed basis, vacancy was 0.9% with the portfolio effectively fully let out. As at the end of 2023, 17% of our portfolio was subject to expiration or rental reversions in 2024, including concluded renewals and rent reviews up to the end of February 2024. This has increased to 14% of our portfolio with all relating to expirations.

Turning to our key investment properties, at our two luxury malls in Beijing, WF Central and Macau, one central Macau IE, there was a good recovery in tenant sales and food for in 2023. Performance was markedly improved compared to 2022, although the second half of 2023 saw slower growth compared to the first half. In Beijing, tenant sales at WF Central were up 44% against 2022. This was partly a result of our tenants' repositioning efforts. At the end of 2023, the property was 89% lead compared to 82% at the end of 2022. In Macau, food for and tenant sales in 2023 benefited from the return of visitors from Hong Kong and the Chinese mainland

with tenant sales increasing 42% comparing to 2022. Moving on to development properties. On the Chinese mainland, the group's development properties pipeline includes 37 projects spread across seven cities with total attributable, developable area amounting to 8.4 million square meters. Of this, construction of approximately 74% has been completed at the end of 2023. Chongqing remains our largest market and accounts for 60% of our Chinese Mainland business by attributable, developable area. We currently have 15 projects in Chongqing with an attributable, developable area of 5 million square meters by exposure in US dollars, which comprises committed development costs,

less presale proceeds, contractually secured. The group's total exposure on the Chinese mainland accounted to US$8 billion at 31st December 2023. Chongqing is our largest market on the Chinese mainland and accounts for 32% followed by Shanghai, Nanjing and Wuhan which accounts for 20%, 18% and 14% respectively. During the year, the group share of development properties, revenue recognized on the Chinese mainland, including its subsidiary and the share of joint venture, was 1.6 billion US dollars. This represented a 13% decrease from the prior year mainly due to lower sales completions. The group share of contractor sales was 1.5 billion US dollars, an 18% increase compared

with 2022, mainly due to more sales launches during the year, as well as the group's focus on the more resilient premium residential segment in top tier cities. At the end of 2023, the group share of sold but unrecognized contract sales in its developments on the Chinese mainland was around $2 billion US, with 77% expected to be recognized in 2024. The group recorded a gross margin of 19% in 2023, down from the 22% recorded in 2022, primarily due to lower margins on certain slower moving projects. Turning now to Singapore, where the groups have six development projects with a total

attributable-developable area amounting to approximately 164,000 square meters, of these constructions of approximately 16% had been completed at the end of 2023. Residential market sentiment moderated due to high interest rates and the cumulative impact of cooling measures, but sales performance at the group's existing projects remains very satisfactory. By exposure in US dollars, the group's total exposure in Singapore amounted to just under US$1 billion as at the 31st of December 2023. Unrecognized in Singapore was $443 million US dollars, compared with $379 million US dollars in 2022, with contributions from Leading Green, Piccadilly Grand, and Galleria, as

well as Tambussu Grand. In terms of sales performance, Contracted Sales in 2023 was $587 million US dollars, compared to US$615 million in 2022. The year-on-year decrease was mainly driven by reduced sales contributions from Leading Green, Piccadilly Grand and Cobalt Grand during the year. As the majority of those units have already been sold, Parkley offset by sales contributions from Tambusu Grant, which launched in April 2023. As at the end of 2023, so but unrecognized contract sales in Singapore was 736 million US dollars, with 28% scheduled to be recognized in 2024 under the presentation of completion method.

In 2023, the group continues to be disciplined and opportunistic in the evaluation of development properties opportunities. During the year, the group secured two new projects on the Chinese mainland, one in Chongqing and one in Beijing. The Chongqing site is adjacent to existing residential and luxury retail projects that the group has under development in the Guanyingqiao area. The residential let mixed use site has a total developable area of approximately 301,000 square metres and is expected to be completed in 2026. In September, the group secured a 20% interest in the development of a residential-led mixed-use site in the western side of Beijing. The total developable area of the site is approximately 199,000 square metres.

In Singapore, the group acquired two residential sites, both in the outside central region of Singapore. Both sites will be developed in joint venture with other developers. The site located in Clemente area and is close to Tambusu Grand. Another residential project of the group that is currently in presale phase. The residential site has a total developable area of approximately 547,000 square metres and is expected to be developed into 501 residential units. Expected completion is in 2027. The other site is located in Pine Grove with a total developable area of approximately 609,000 square feet and is expected to develop into 552 units. completion is also in 2027. Next, I would like to provide some highlights on the progress of our

existing pipelines. Turning to an update on our Chinese mainland retail pipeline. In operated by the launch of WF Central Beijing in 2019, the central brand is Hong Kong Land's leading Premium luxury retail series on the Chinese mainland, the group expects to launch four additional central branded luxury retail properties from 2024 to 2028 in Nanjing, Chongqing, Suzhou, and Shanghai with an estimated attributable net-latable area of approximately 162,000 square meters. In 2021, the group opened a seven-level shopping mall under the lifestyle retail brands The Ring in Chongqing. This property is the first in this series of malls under development under The Ring brand. The group expects to

launch six additional malls under this brand from 2024 to 2028 with an estimated attributable net-latable for area of approximately 196,000 square metres. In terms of pre-leasing progress, the groups have received very positive feedback from major brands on our central series projects in Chongqing, Suzhou and Shanghai, while Nanjing has been more challenging due to intense local competition. On the lifestyle retail pipeline, the next ring series more to open will be in Chengdu. for the property is on track as it is just under 60% committed today. Upon completion in 2028, the group's total attributable retail net-latable area under these two brands will be three times greater than the current levels.

These assets will provide the group with a strong source of growth in recurring income stream. Coming now to an update on the Westbun. Good progress has been made on the development of the Westbun Financial Hub, the group's 1.1 million square meters prime mixed use development in Shanghai. Phase 1 includes primarily the residential component, both for lease and for sale, as well as parts of the premium lifestyle retail for lease components. Momento, the residential for sale towers on Block G has completed construction at end of last year with sales launch expected in 2024. Given the luxury positioning, we expect the project to be well received by the market. In the first phase of the group, proprietary branded rental apartments, western central residences and the ancillary retail for these components is on

progress to be launched in the second half of 2024. Phase two, which is expected to be completed in stages between 2025 and 2026 will consist of low and mid-rise offices, hotels and other cultural facilities. The groups have received positive feedback from the market on this office's products and has made very good progress with the number of interested parties. Phase 3 will consist on the office and luxury retail for lease, as well as the premium hotel and service apartments which is expected to be operated by a global high-end hotel brand. The positioning of Phase 3 is expected to rival our central portfolio in Hong Kong. Completion is expected in stages from 2026 to 2027. I will now turn the presentations to Craig to cover the financial highlights.

Thanks Robert and good morning everyone. Nice to see you all here today. I'll now take you through the financial performance of the group in 2023. Everything I refer to here is in US dollars, unless otherwise indicated. The group delivered a respectable performance in 2023 with underlying profits at 734 million, down 5% compared to the prior year. Contributions from investment properties increased, while development properties declined due to less favorable market conditions on the Chinese mainland. Investment properties operating profits increased by $33 million year-on-year, and this increase was mainly due mainly from our luxury retail portfolio in Hong Kong, Beijing and Macau, which saw improved tenant sales and fruit fall since anti-pandemic restrictions were lifted. Performance for the Singapore office portfolio also improved on the back of positive rental

reversions. This was partly offset by lower operating profits in Hong Kong office, primarily from negative rental reversions. Operating profits from development properties decreased by 131 million year on year, primarily due to a combination of lower profit margins, less planned sales completions on the Chinese mainland and the impairment of two residential projects in Wuhan. Total contributions from projects in South Asia were on par with the prior year. There was a net decrease in tax charges in the period due to a smaller share of profits coming from the Chinese mainland where tax rates are higher than in Hong Kong. This more than offset higher financing costs resulting from rising interest rates. Overall the operating profits split between investment properties and development properties was roughly 78% to 22% in 2023, compared with 70% and 30% in 2022.

Returning to rental income which increased by 4% compared with 2022, mainly driven by improved performances from across all segments except the Hong Kong Central Portfolio. The combined rental income from our office and retail portfolio in Hong Kong decreased by a net 1% when compared with the prior year. Rental income in Singapore increased by 8% benefiting from healthy demand and supply dynamics with positive rental reversions across the portfolio. On the Chinese mainland, rental income increased 19% benefiting from significant improvements in tenant sales since pandemic restrictions were lifted. In particular, contributions from our WF Central Mall in Beijing have increased as we begin to see the benefits from our tenant repositioning efforts. And contributions from our hotel operations in Beijing and Macau improved significantly as visitors returned in

2023, leading to higher occupancy levels. Turning to the operating profit of the group's development properties by region, please note this slide includes the group share of joint ventures and associates. Profits on the Chinese mainland, just to remind you, are recognized when projects complete construction and are handed over to buyers. This means that construction progress and the number of projects in the pipeline will cause fluctuations in profitability across reporting periods. Profits in the period reduced by 43% year over year, reflecting a combination of fewer number of project completions, slightly lower profit margins, and an impairment of $90 million recognized on some residential assets. Profits in Singapore are recognized on a percentage of construction completion basis, so slightly different from what we do in China. Profits in 2023 were largely in line with the prior year.

Contributions in Indonesia increased slightly due to more planned sales completions. and in other South Asian countries, operating profits decreased, with 2022 profits benefiting from the completion of a large residential project in Vietnam. I will now provide you with an update on our balance sheet. The net asset value at 31st December, 2023 was 32 billion, down 4% compared to the end of the prior year. This decrease was primarily from lower valuations for our Hong Kong office assets, due to a 4% decline in open market rents and a small expansion in cap rates, partly offset by a higher capital value for Hong Kong retail assets due to higher open market rents. Share repurchases during the year resulted in a 10 cents per share increment in our net asset value per share. And exchange translation differences of 131 million,

mainly related to assets on the Chinese mainland, which had a lower value in US dollars due to a weakening of the renminbi. Overall, net asset value per share was 14.49 at 31st December, 2023. Let's now turn to an update on capital management. In line with previous guidance, we endeavored to maintain a steady or increasing dividend as recurring earnings grow. The group expects the dividend to be maintained in a down year if we consider this to be caused by temporary factors with a resulting increase in payout ratio. This is particularly evident in the past two years with our dividends per share held constant at a corresponding increase in our payout ratio to above 60% due to lower profitability. The resilience of our investment properties operating income provides stable cash flows that support our dividends to shareholders. In terms of capital deployment, in 2023 the group committed 1.3 billion of capital to

new projects, which is less than the annual investments made between 2017 and 2021. And as Robert mentioned, the investments in 2023 comprised residential projects in Singapore, Indonesia and China. On shared buyback, the group recently concluded its shared buyback program at the end of and the total amount invested in the program since it was first announced in September 2021 is $627 million, reducing the number of total shares outstanding by 5.5%. The group's capital allocation principles remain unchanged. Hong Kong land will continue to prioritise investments in new assets to drive long-term growth in shareholder value while maintaining or growing dividends per share. and existing assets, including shared buybacks, will continue to be viewed opportunistically. Let's take a look at our Treasury management. The maturity profile of the Group's debt

is shown on the left-hand side of this slide. The debt maturities are staggered over a number of years and are well-diversified between both banks and debt capital markets. The Group is in a strong position with respect to its refinancing plans. Of the 782 million of debt due to mature this year, 400 million was refinance in July 2023 with the issuance of a 10 year fixed rates note, whilst the remaining maturities have also largely been refinance in recent months or will be repaid as scheduled. The average tenor of withdrawn debt at the end of the year was 6.3 years and the average interest cost was 3.9% up from 3.3% at the end of 2022. The impact of increased market interest rates was mitigated by having 60% of our average gross debt held at fixed rates. And most of the group's borrowings are in Hong Kong dollars, where we actually have a higher hedge ratio of about 80%. At the

end of 2023, the group had available liquidity of $4 billion compared to $3.1 billion at end of 2022. Our credit ratings by S&P and Moody's remain unchanged at A and A3 respectively. I'll now hand back to Robert who will close with comments on our sustainability achievements in 2023 and a few of our ongoing corporate initiatives this year. Thank you Craig. Moving on to sustainability, I would like to highlight a few of the group's achieved key achievements over the past year. The group continue to make progress on accessibility journey over the past year. On the commonization, the group is committed to continue undertaking asset enhancements and other energy efficiency initiatives. As this progresses towards its 2030 targets. Using our portfolio in Hong Kong as an example,

we piloted integrated facilities management control tower technology at Alexandra House, which effectively means using machine learning to optimize thermal comfort and energy efficiency, as well as to enable predictive operations and maintenance. On scope 3, emissions. The group also took a significant step forward in tackling its and body carbon footprint from development activities by being one of the first property companies in the region to build measurement tools bespoke to its major construction supply chains. The group expect the integration of these tools across the design and planning procurement and construction stages of its development projects to drive emissions reductions in the coming years. On the tenant collaboration front,

the group built on a successful pilot green feet out and operations recognition scheme by launching a more comprehensive tenant sustainability partnership program at the central portfolio in the third quarter of 2023. The program aims to deepen our collaboration with tenants on our shared sustainability journey, to include not only finding ways to improve our environmental performance, but also combining our efforts in delivering one tree and other CSL initiatives to the local community. Moving on to ESG's ratings. The group's continued commitments and strong performance on the stability initiatives has been recognized in a number of ESG ratings, especially those involving in-depth assessments requiring active participation. The group was pleased to receive the highest five-star ratings

from the Global Real Estate Sustainability Benchmark under both the Standing Investments and Development Benchmark for 2023. In addition, the group was named Global Sector Leader, diversified sector for the first time under the Grespi Development Benchmark. Hong Kong Land also qualified for the second consecutive year as a constituent of the Dao Jeong's Sustainability Asia Pacific Index as a result of its strong performance in the 2023 S&P Global Corporate Sustainability Assessment and was included in the S&P Global Sustainability Yearbook 2024 which recognized effectively the top 15% of the sector's participants globally. For sustainability analytics, the group obtained a group ESG rating of 17.6, i.e. in the category

of low risk. Finally, on the Climate Disclosure Product, CDP, the group retained its Climate Change score of B. Moving on to a few of our corporate initiatives. Next, I would like to do a few moments to provide a brief update of the group's digitizations and innovations initiatives. On the customer side, in Landmark in Hong Kong, the group used data analytics to provide insights on customer behaviours and was able to target specific customers with personalised offers, resulting in the landmark increasing sales by over 200% during the campaign period. In addition, the group was able to use this insight to send dynamic and personalized communications content to the individual customers based on their buying behavior,

which drove an 8% increase in click rate and engagement. The group also launched a new visual application tool which provides potential tenants and customers a digital, parametric view of the commercial space on offer, as well as surrounding amenities and areas. The digital Trin tool is already available on several commercial projects on the Chinese mainland, including the westbound, and is expected to be gradually made available across all the group's assets. On the SSI, where the group has a long track record of reinvesting in its portfolios, we continue to upgrade our existing properties to ensure they are among the best in class. At the Hong Kong Central Portfolio, the group is currently piloting a state-of-the-art integrated facilities management control tower technology at the Central Portfolio.

This system uses machine learning logarithms to analyze data from both from and outside traditional building management systems to optimize thermal comfort and energy efficiency as well as to enable predictive operations and maintenance. On the enterprise side, the group has been working on several initiatives to drive operational efficiency and synergies across the regions. Recent achievements include streamlining and automating property management work orders, driving efficiency which enables our people to better serve our tenants. Separately to embrace generative AI, the group launched its own version of CHEP GPT to increase overall productivity. and adoptions across the organisation continues with the tool delivering good results and

driving efficiency in content development and drafting of agreements etc. Moving on to CSL, the Home Fund, which is a community building initiative of a group, continues to collaborate with NGO partners to create programmes that are focused on promoting the upward mobility of youth and alleviating housing-related social issues. Since its launch in 2020, the Home Fund has invested over $100 million in various programs to foster an inclusive society. One of our flagship projects this year is our common home, Extended Living Space for subdivided units residents in Chun Wan. This is in collaboration with Caritas. What is this initiative about? It is about aiming at providing a multifunctional living

space to improve the well-being of subdivided units' families, benefiting over 3,000 individuals over a span of three years. In addition to a cash donation to support this project, Hong Kong Land volunteers contributed their expertise in design and facility improvement to transform the former staff quarters of the Chin Wan wet market into a community hub with study areas, function rooms, kitchen and laundry facilities. experience with this project will provide valuable insights to the Hong Kong government pilot program on community living room which aims also to improve the living environment of the grassroots community. Some other key highlights in 2023 would include collaborations with 21 grantees to enhance support for youth through multi-year education, job readiness and work experience programs,

which has so far assisted over 20,000 young individuals. Ongoing work with over 100 NGOs to tackle housing related social issues, so far this program has benefited also 12,000 persons. We are here to help the volunteer program since its inception in 2021 has continued to mobilize volunteers to participate in programs such as career coaching, mentoring, and facility improvement projects etc. In 2023, Hong Kong Land employees achieved a participant rate of 64%, a significant improvement over the prior year. During Christmas this year, Hongfang launched for its first time the Christmas Trees of Hope campaign, which encouraged Hong Kong land tenants and business partners to support our community by sponsoring a Christmas trees in Hong Kong land central portfolio.

I will now conclude with our outlook for 2024. Operating conditions across the group's key markets are likely to remain uncertain in 2024 due to geopolitical and macroeconomic headwinds. The group's investment properties portfolio is now expected to continue generating stable returns. In Hong Kong, the challenging macro environment and persistence high interest rates will continue to wait on office leasing momentum with any upside dependent on the pace of recovery of the capital markets activity in 2024. Rental reversions are expected to remain negative for most of 2024. In Singapore, the office portfolio is expected to continue to benefit from the positive rental reversions

as economic uncertainty and inflationary pressures are offset by tight supply in the CBD area. On the retail front, having recovered from a low base, performance at the group's luxury retail portfolio is expected to remain healthy. The group will look to continue collaborating with our luxury brands partners to deliver new products and experiences to our loyal bespoke members. development properties and improvement in contributions from the Chinese mainland in 2024 is anticipated due to a higher number of planned project completions. The group's strong balance sheets, its reputation for quality and execution, as well as focus on premium products in selected top cities, put it in a strong position to weather the

the uncertain outlook across the broader Chinese property market. In Singapore, residential market sentiment is moderating, although contributions for 2024 is expected to remain stable as construction on existing projects continue to progress. Overall, we expect uncertain market conditions to persist through most of 2024, although any potential negative impact on the group's full-year underlying profits is expected to be mild. The group remains in a strong financial position with a development pipeline of recurring income-producing assets to be completed over the next several years. Okay, this concludes my presentation today. It's the Q&A time. If you would like to ask any questions from anyone on the floor,

please raise your hands and the mic will be passed to you. When you receive the mic, please quote your name and also the company that you belong to before you raise the questions. Likewise for those people, you know, raising questions through the webcast, also state your name as well as your company before writing your questions. Okay, that's the Q&A time. Hi, management. This is Carl Chan from JP Morgan. I have two questions. The first question is about the Hong Kong office. Just curious, for this year, I think that the rental reversion may likely still be negative, right? But just curious, in terms of the magnitude, do you think that it will actually narrow in terms of the negative reversion? And then in terms of incremental demand, where do you see this incoming tenants may be coming from? Would that be coming from mainland Chinese companies or would there be more like expansion of existing tenants? So that would be my first question. And the second question is about our strategies and views on the Chinese mainland residential market.

In general, how do we see in terms of the margin and would we be considered cutting prices? Because right now, as you mentioned, the sentiment in the mainland Chinese residential market is still very weak, right? So what would be our strategy there? will we still be investing more new land, residential projects in Mainland China? Thank you. Okay, thanks for the questions. With regard to the Hong Kong office markets about the negative rental reversion trend, of course, just remind everyone in the last couple of years, we have been, of course, the market rents has been trending down. If you talk about two, three years ago, negative rental reversions extend, is in the order of low to mid teens. Last year we are talking about roughly negative rental reversions is in order of 10% as well. Okay, now with the markets of course coming off from a relatively high base, what would I expect the rental reversions

to be happening this year? Of course, as I mentioned in the presentation, it should remain in the negative reversion cycle. And then with the average rents, the average rent expiring rents of this year, actually quite similar to last year. And then, I would expect that is probably the sort of, unless the market's return itself also significantly or remains very, very subdued, then I should expect that the level of rental reversion should not be more than what we experienced last year, based on the word I have just explained. That is about the – but I would like to also comment on the – while we are talking about the office markets in Hong Kong, just to explain a little bit about our experience on the ground, when we say that, okay, we are very resilient, of course, as you can see, our portfolio, especially the main – near the backbone of the group is the office portfolio

in Hong Kong. I think the performance or the behavior of the top 30 tenants will give you a clue that base, that really back up our statement that the markets or our portfolio or our income really stayed quite resilient. What happened to the top 30 tenants? What happened to them? Are they facing a lot of downsizing actions, etc.? If you look at since the beginning of last year and then look at it from today's angle, what happened to these top 30 tenants? Two of them, out of the top 30 tenants, two of them has confirmed that they will be leaving us. That would constitute about 1.7% of our portfolio size roughly. Of the remaining 28 tenants, actually, if you look at their behavior, they actually a net increase in total requirements from the beginning of last year until now.

So I think from that total behavior, you could see that even though the two tenants are leaving us which has been quite well known in the market already, they are not downsizing as far as we are aware. So you may say that the top 30 tenants quite reflect quite a significant part of the business sentiments, they are holding on quite strongly on a relative basis. One would say that all for all, all for all, the requirements of office space in the market is actually quite stable with no significant downsizing. There are reasons, news about who is downsizing, etc. And especially legal professions, yes, we do have legal professions also downsizing. We do have people coming in and out, but if you look at our experience, you just zoom in to the legal professions. What is the experience of the legal professions? Actually last year, in fact, we have people leaving us, downsizing, but we do have also

lawyers coming into our portfolio. If you look at the net-net effect of the legal professions, it's actually net positive in terms of space requirements of the legal professions. So again, I'm not trying to paint the very rosy pictures about that in the office market, but I just want to say that, all right, you would say that you are resilient. On what basis that you are telling the market that you are reasonably resilient? I can only highlight to the fact that with collective behavior of these major businesses, it seems quite stable. Of course, everyone is facing challenges at the moment, but it seems that we have not at least for the time being detected very concerning signals

at the moment. All right, okay. With regard to the demand for office space, of course, one can only say, characterize the demand is quite weak. Needless to say, inquiry levels remains quite low. Even the net space requirement per inquiry is relatively low as well. So the weak demand, I don't think that is news to everyone on that front. What about the characteristics of the new demand? Mainly still legal professions, you will be amazed. And also of course the portfolios attract a lot of financial tenants. So in the financial sectors, the capital related market, capital market related entities are still mainly their main attractions to our portfolio if we want. I have not seen quite a meaningful return of

the mainland Chinese interest. I think I have said before that it has gone from a very, very, they have been dominating the market for quite a period of time. That was quite some years ago and that has since reduced to 20 to 30% of the total market demand pattern. And that has stayed at that level and I have not seen that demand has actually swing back to a very high level and which I think is a very healthy balance. Instead of relying on just one particular source of demand, it's quite well balanced now, I would say, which I think is probably more healthy in the long run. All right, turning to your another question about the strategy on the Chinese mainland. I think our action speaks for itself. I think last year we have been quite opportunistic in terms of acquisitions. We have not been too aggressive in, you know, I think that approach remains our attitude generally, not just mainland Chinese market,

but also around the region. I think we will still be cautious in assessing new opportunities, margins, okay, you know you asked about the question on margins, we have, I have said you know the margins last year average is 19%, mainly tracked by you know the our projects in Wuhan is the the only market set we have felt quite a pressure on, the rest is quite I would say relatively healthy still in terms of margins, of course the overall average last year we're talking about 19%. I think the going forward if project margins you know the is not in the low 20% ish it does not worth considering at all. So you know as a group some targets for margins for new projects I think it should you know it should restore back to the low 20s region on the gross margin, i.e. net net mid teens probably is the otherwise

wide border with an investment with the risk involved, etc. One should not be border with two lower margins. Strategy in terms of selling infantry. You look at what happened to a lot of developers in China, they have been cutting prices. Has that generated a lot of sales for a short period of time? Yes, maybe weeks, but not sustainable periods of time. But what would be the net effect of cutting price significantly? You just erode customers' confidence in your projects, etc. We don't think slashing price would be a right way to move infantry. We have not done that but you look at our share of the contracted sales last year of 1.5 billion US dollars versus the prior years of 1.3 billion US dollars our share. It's actually an increase but not

through cutting prices. So how can you achieve that? Of course, our careful selection of projects in the past is important. We only look at the better projects, then our premium positions also is very important. So we have already developed quite a reputation in the market that our value relatively holds in all circumstances. I'm not saying that we are in milk from any price, any value for, but at least our customers see that it's good quality products, price generally hold well, and hence, that is a confidence that A, it's very important that we need to, but should we be insensitive to market changes that in a sense that, all right, are you living on the moon? Do you know that China has been challenging, et cetera? No, we are not living on the moon. we know that market is challenging. So our general practice is when there is an uptick

in the market sentiment, that is the time to be flexible in pricing. So when you have customers through the door, you could have selective periods of promotions, but not in massive price cuts. That would be a better strategy. Be flexible when you have serious customers at your doorsteps, welcome them in, of course, and be flexible, but not through massive cash. We do not believe in it, even if you cut your price significantly. Does it help? On the one hand, it's zero, customers, the confidence in you. Other projects will follow suit anyway. So, you know, we, our product quality will always have a premium over the competitive products, because if we match their pricing, they would need to drop their price, otherwise no one would buy their products anyway. So again, the market behavior have suggested that massive price cuts does not help sales.

It's continue our journey on quality, delivering the products on time at good quality. Our customer satisfaction rate is well above market. You know, the over 90% customer satisfaction rate when the market norm is 75, mid-70s, we are over 90%. We are very conscious about these figures, independent survey of our customer survey. This is important to manage our portfolio and especially when the future of Chinese market is about upgraded demand. Upgraded demand means that they are looking for more quality products. And hence, I think Hong Kong land should stick with these strategies, it works well. It protects us in all times. In good times, obviously, we have better upside. In bad times, like what we're experiencing, I think we can say that despite some weaker projects,

but generally we don't have huge problems. Hi, I'm Carl Choi from Bank of America. First of all, best wishes to Robert on long and healthy retirement. Thank you. And we'll miss seeing you. A couple questions and I don't think they'll be too tough. First one is on Hong Kong retail, you mentioned you expect the luxury brands to continue to do well. I'm just curious about the other parts of the portfolio, the non-luxury side, for example F&P, are you seeing any weakness from either local economy not doing well or even leakage to Shenzhen? And related to that, as you're doing some retail revamp, what sort of retail spot right now left do you expect? Second is moving on to Hong Kong DP. Hong Kong Land hasn't done much in Hong Kong DP for the last few years, but with Hong Kong home prices and land prices having corrected quite a bit and the government has relaxed pretty much all the restrictive measures, just curious if you would contemplate returning, having a bigger presence in Hong Kong DP. Thanks.

Okay, thanks for the question. I think Hong Kong retail is of course one of the bright spots that we experience with the total retail sales of a portfolio actually have returned to the pre-pandemic record level. I think I won't use 2019, 2018, it's actually our record retail sales actually that already exceeds the total. And then we are currently managing happy problems that most of our key retail brands are asking for expansion space. So how to satisfy everyone with a fixed size of a portfolio is a happy problem that we are managing. So on the F&B side of a portfolio, F&B to a certain extent is especially in a portfolio with a lot of the fine dining offerings. Invariably it will be affected by weak macro economics of environments, especially when

the capital market when you have less IP hosts, there will be less business entertainments that you would expect. So I think our all four F&B, while the retail sales including F&B is actually positive, we just zoom into the F&B compared with the peak, historical peak, we are some 10 to 15% down, still not yet returned to the, which is not surprising if you ask me, I think given the current environment, but it's not significantly below what we have experienced. I would say it saves the sector. So I think it's partly due to the fact that we try to keep evolving our offerings. For weakest spots like the basement of Jardin House has been the weakest spots of Hong Kong land. We turn it into base hall, which is a thriving, near the F&B concept, the top floor of the Blossertow, I mentioned about 45, and then the 45 used to be

just a private club. We turned it into quite a venue for public experiences and it is very, very received by the market. Earlier on, Alexandria House, we moved, relocated office tenants occupying the podium floor, program level of the, and then it turned into two retail FNB concepts. I think the continuous, you know, the, you know, the creation of new FNB concepts have prevented us from suffering from a general market phenomenon of quite a significant fall in FNB. And I think, you know, we stay very relevant. And then we are not stopping here. We have big plans that, you know, is going to continue to evolve our F&B offerings going forward. Retail in mainland, I think we don't have many at the moment. But I must say that the two, I think

we have two ring projects in operations. And one thing I've mentioned about that, we have very impressive growth in sales and also rent. And you look at the two ring project, one is in Shanghai and the other one is in Chongqing, both of them registered over 30% increase in rent, average rent, throughout the course of last year. So of course, you know, why you can achieve over 30% is not single digit, over 30%. And I do expect this ring project, you know, will become the strong force of Hong Kong land, upon completions, of course, in future. Of course, you need to manage it well before you can enjoy despite market in China, I won't characterize that as very strong, retail-wise it's okay, but we manage against such an environment, a strong increase in rent. And then I'm very positive about, but they are relatively small portfolio, but it's an indicator of the market is competitive,

but you need to know your stuff, how to make it work. Then I think we have a good team in China, And I'm very confident that they will continue to perform well. The last question you have asked is, Hong Kong development properties, would I invest in residential projects in Hong Kong, given that it's probably more sensible now in terms of the pricing, etc. But of course, I think I won't rule out any market. But I continue to look at the, you know, is this a market that I like to sink in a chunk of money and then with the payback talking about five, six years? Do I really like this sort of profile? When I, my main business is to build a portfolio of rental assets over long term. I like a class of investments that has a relatively short payback period so that I can turn around and redeploy our capital more flexibly.

minus to offer you quite a nice payback period, I will say still, for the careful, under careful selections two years max probably for the right, you know, selections of the projects. So I think the, I think the, that is a very important criteria that, you know, I like to be more flexible. You know, the, I have a very, you know, you know, a strong base on capital intensive projects. I like to have a relatively light project in a way that the turnaround time is high. And I think in medium-long term, short term, it's very challenging in China, but given what we have demonstrated, our capability in the market, and hence I think I will still be more positive about the China market as a destination of our allocation if we are to invest in more

residential assets. Singapore will be another destination that I think could be interesting. Now it has a very healthy profile even though the market sentiment has moderated which is healthy as well. I always like to think about market when the market environment is a little but I'm sure management of Hong Kong land will continue this as to culture when it comes to new investment opportunities. All right, okay. Well, I take, well, there's a couple of questions coming online. I'll take the first two because they're financial related. Two questions from Wen Han Chen from Principal Asset Management. The first question is how much was the mild expansion of cap rates during the year? Just to remind everybody, there was a, the cap rate question here relates to Hong Kong office. There was no change in the cap rates across our other investment properties portfolio, whether that was retail Hong Kong or mainland China or Singapore.

So Hong Kong office, the cap rate expanded by 10 basis points. It was quite an even expansion. There was five basis points at the half year in June, and a further five basis points and the second half of last year, so 10 basis points in total. And the second question is about our funding cost. What is the company's latest funding cost at the end of last year, and how much did it change during the course of the year? We ended last year with average borrowing cost of 3.9% compared to 3.3% at the end of 2022, so an increase of 0.6%. And if you think about it, Hong Kong interest rates more than doubled in that period went up by about 2.5 to 0.6%. So that really talks to the hedging that we have in place because despite interest rates doubling in Hong Kong, there was a mild 0.6% impact on average overall for us. Any capex plan, you know, basically is there any capex plan for landmark and other Hong

Kong projects? Basically, you know, we have it. Our central portfolio is, you know, of the main investment in Hong Kong. I've mentioned about quite a lot of key retail brands want to expand. Invariably, we need to have some capex, you know, the, you know, we juggle around, you know, they will have plans to create more duplexes, store base, you know, the around our portfolio to satisfy the key demand. I think, you know, I reserve the details of what would exactly is our plan, once we are able to really complete the Jigsaw puzzle with our brands and then finalize the plan, we will make an announcement. I think one should expect that we will need to have some cat-packs to satisfy the needs of the, or to really satisfy the expansion needs of our tenants. Okay, maybe a round of questions from the floor.

Praveen, yes. Thank you. This is Praveen Chaudhary from Logan Stanley. Hi, Craig. Hi, Robert. Hi. Hi. Thanks for the great presentation and also you answered a lot of questions. So maybe one or two marginal question. I have questions on balance sheet. So the first question is about your JV partner in the Bund project. We just wanted to understand the health of your JV partner considering so much going on in mainland in the sense that will it come to a point where you have to take over the entire project if the partner balance sheet is not strong. So anything you can talk about that. The second question is about, would you be able to share your look through gearing? So the gearing including associates and JV projects, if possible. And the third question is a follow up on the other question that you tried to answer. We're trying to understand 2024 cost of debt for the company.

And so you mentioned 3.9% with 62% fixed rate, right? Imagine Hiberr remains at the current level of, let's say 4.5% for the entire 2024 for argument's sake. Would your cost of debt be higher than 3.9% or any guidance on that? Thank you so much. Okay, on the JV partners, you probably have picked up Over the last two years, we have mixed some acquisitions of our partners state.

From day one, we have been very careful in our partner's connections. So we don't have significant partnership issues even though at the beginning of the downward cycle. So I would say the more problematic projects, we have probably have done the acquisitions. The major project that the most important project of course is Westman. Our partner is Ping An Insurance. I don't think that we foresee any – of course, it's not for me to comment about their financial positions. At least I'm not aware that there's any issues on the partnership front with Ping An Insurance, which is our most significant project in China. In the bad market, you're bound to have issues with your partners. We always have a difference in view on how to manage your projects. These are the usual things. Would I announce a lot of more acquisitions on the partner state?

I don't think so. I don't think the more problematic one has been dealt with. And then as most of our projects are actually carefully selected, the more problematic project in Wuhan is 100% owned anyway. there is no partner in that. So, it's also not an issue for us. So, all in all, partner situation is quite very manageable and I don't see that we would have a lot of businesses coming from that direction going forward. And the other two relates to financial matters. Craig, would you like to take it on? I think Praveen, in relation to the question, our debt at joint venture level is something that we monitor very closely. It's a good question. Our debt, our share, Hong Kong land share of joint venture debt is about 1.9 billion US dollars. 1.5 of that 1.9 is in Singapore. And the reason we have such a large amount in Singapore is because

of our joint venture office portfolio, which is One Raffles Key and Marina Bay Financial Center, which just to remind everybody, is a significant office portfolio of about 4 and 1 1,000,000 square feet. It's similar in size to what we have in Hong Kong. So the balance of debt of about $400 million US is in China. And it's actually not that significant a number. It's probably smaller than you would have thought. So we've been very focused on managing debt levels within our projects in the mainland. And in fact, there's a reasonable amount of cash in many of our joint venture projects. I mean, given the challenges that the markets face on the residential side, we've been very focused on ensuring that each of our joint venture projects are well capitalized. We've not been stripping lots of cash out, which is why we have enhanced significant funding impacts at the group level. So I think the joint venture position is pretty robust.

In terms of 2024 debt, I'm anticipating our debt cost for the year to be about 4%, so actually not that big an increase from the 3.9. And the reason for that is that we've actually been in the process of swapping some of our Hong Kong dollar debt for renminbi debt, because interest rates there, as you know, have been falling, and we've been taking advantage of that. I mean, just generally on financing Hong Kong land remains in a very robust position here. We're very fortunate to have great support from our banking partners, not just in Hong Kong, but also in the mainland. So right now, we can borrow money and probably save about 2% per annum between the Hong Kong float rate and the renminbi fixed rate. So we've been doing a bit of that, which is why there's only a marginal increase anticipated in borrowing costs for this year. Okay, yes, please. Thank you.

Good morning, this is Raymond Liu from HSBC. I got three questions. The first question actually is about portfolio. If we took a look around for the many companies in Asia, many of them actually are planning to reposition their portfolios under the current elevated interest rate environment. Can the management share with us any plan for the asset investment or any asset divestment plan in the next 12 months time? This will be the first question. And the second question will be related to that a lot of equity investors care about. So like if you look at the payout ratio, it increased like high 40% to allow this 60%. So if the payout ratio continue to trend a bit, maybe very short period of time, what should investors think of in terms of the dividend prospect? And the last question will be related to the packing order of capital allocations. Like can you share with us your thoughts

about the shared repurchase program down the road? Thank you. Okay, thanks for the question. The repositioning of the portfolio, if your repositioning means that would we be selling our assets in Central effectively, again, the asset of responsible management, of course we should consider all options, but I must say that the core Central portfolio is really very much our backbone. So there is no active plan to think about that. But we should make sure that in terms of repositioning from another angle to continue to stay relevant in the market, that is what we believe that is the key focus. Yes, we always trying to put in place the appropriate repositioning plan. At the moment, I think apart from the usual capex that we try to upgrade the standard of our buildings,

our average age of the building is 40 years, but no one feel that it's that old. It's because of that ongoing process of upgrading our buildings to make it competitive. A big repositioning, I won't say repositioning, but it's a big plan to really get our retail, really stay at the top end of the offerings. We need to invest alongside with our key retailers,

increasing the size of the store. Most of them are more than doubling the size of the store. It's a huge investment by many brands. So we should also invest alongside with them. So that is to make it, I think after this rung of repositioning of the retail portfolio, I should think that the central retail portfolio will be probably one of the strongest in terms of attracting luxury spending globally by standard of the store that they are putting in place. And then also central in general, with also the completion of the Henson Project that adds to the entire offerings of central. And then we are the jewels of the crown, which is important. But I think we need, we cannot, no one can perform well on this zone with such a size of a folio.

So again, the 04 central market is actually trending quite positively, both ourselves and also the wider market, that's really improve it. Other asset divestment, I think we continue our strategy, our DP assets, of course residential is all for sale, but we do have the ring series that we are not, our strategy on ring series is, yes, they are very good assets, we need to work on it. Once the yield has been stabilized at quite a nice level, we should be looking for opportunities of divestments, but maintaining still a stake in it so that we can still portfolio owning a cluster of retail assets in a growing market is important. The kind of scale that it pose to leverage with the retail brands and the leverage against the retail tenants is actually important, right?

So our strategy for the Ring series is Once we have made it relatively mature in terms of earnings, it's the time to consider also divesting the ring series. Central series is not something that we feel that we should, you know, we should divest as a long-term investment. So these are the areas that I would say explain on the repositioning side, on the dividend and also payout ratio share purchase, you know, the yes, Craig, why not you answer? I think on the dividend, we tried to be quite clear about our dividend. obviously our objective is to maintain and eventually grow the dividend over time. I mean I think when we discussed the dividend at board level, of course we're conscious of the macroeconomic environment, but the fact that we have a very strong resilient IP portfolio does provide the group with a very solid and fairly stable level of income. So I think that's what underpins the dividend. I think we're also conscious that as we look at our portfolio evolution as we touched on briefly earlier, we do have a pipeline of

assets under development that are expected to start to contribute income for the group. So I think when you've got a projected earnings base that's expected to increase over time and the fact that we've got a strong balance sheet today, it means that we are able to effectively sustain the dividend despite the sort of short-term economic challenges. So hopefully that answers your question. On the share buyback, obviously we've concluded the program that was formally in place at the end of last year. We reduced the share capital by about 5.5%. Clearly the economic conditions have changed significantly since we first announced the buyback in 2021. So we're very conscious of rising interest rates and higher borrowing costs. We're conscious of the weakness in the office market in Hong Kong and also in China. So I think against that backdrop, we're taking a more cautious approach to the buyback. But clearly, given where the share price is today, I can't deny it's an attractive level.

So it's something that we will continue to keep under watch. All right. Okay. Anyone from the floor would like to answer? Yes, please. Hi, management. This is Jeff Liao from DBS. When you discussed the earnings outlook for 2024, you mentioned the rental earnings, the recidian, there will be more sales commission, pandas sales commission in China, Singapore earnings stable. At the end, you mentioned that you anticipate more reduction in underlying earnings. Which factor item will cost you to think about the earnings will be lower this year? I think in relation to the outlook for this year, there's a couple of things that we're referring to. First of all, the Hong Kong office market remains weak. I mean, Robert's mentioned already some outlook in terms of potential negative rental reversions.

So we are anticipating a further slight reduction in income from the Hong Kong office. The China development property side, we are anticipating an increase due to a larger number of completions. But the other two factors which are a bit boring but are features, are interest costs where we are anticipating if rates remain elevated there will be some financial impact of that and also tax because as we increase our profit contribution from China there is expected to be a greater increase in tax. So I think you take all those four things together and effectively means that we're anticipating a sort of earnings result that's perhaps slightly down from where we were in 2023. Okay, any more questions? Yes. Thank you, management. This is Mark Lang from UPS.

Another question is more on the land-free side. Just to mention, our outlook remains quite cautious because the interest rate environment remains quite high. So we just The first one is our comparable gearing ratio in the near term. I think that's the first question. And then the second question is on the cap rate side. We're seeing more expansion for the Hong Kong office cap rate. What kind of cap rate you think will be a reasonable level in the next few years? And then the last one is I think recently we got some financing policy easing from the the mainland, for example, allowing a completed investment property to pledge and then the LTV was increased to 70%. Just want to check that we will consider to pledge any of our mainland investment properties to get lower funding onshore. Thank you. Okay, quite a few questions there. Let me sort of pick them off one by one. I think in relation to the gearing of the group, clearly the gearing is a function of two things. First

First of all, how much debt we have. Secondly, what's the value and size of our balance sheet? On the debt side, most of you are familiar that we are a very disciplined group in terms of our debt levels. They've come down slightly in 2023. We continue to look at investing in our portfolio, but I think because of our DP portfolio, we We do have a large chunk of our balance sheet, about 20%, which is invested in assets that will be recycled in time. So you should anticipate our debt to come down, absent any new significant investments. So that's a general comment on the debt levels. I think on the value of the balance sheet, really, it's linked to your other question about cap rates. And I haven't got a crystal ball in that one, unfortunately, as to where I anticipate cap rates going, but clearly there's a few things at play here. The main one is really around interest rate outlook, and I'm not going to try and guess what the Fed's going to do

this year, but it does feel that we're at a point where rates are potentially at the point of starting to decrease, perhaps mildly this year. So I think we're now going into a cycle potentially where the interest rate environment will start to reduce. I think on the other side on cap rates is clearly around market evidence of transactions which for prime properties in Hong Kong there's been a dearth of. Clearly the more recent transaction in Quarry Bay by the SFC has provided some evidence of a prime office sale. So I think it's really going to be more about what happens in the market to be honest. I think the near term pressure on valuations is probably going to come more from outlook on rents than it is on cap rates, but that's just my view. I think on the policy easing in China, one of the great benefits of being a well-financed and strong group is that we have effectively next to zero covenants in our debt facilities.

We do pledge assets on a local basis where we're comfortable to do so, but given our strong covenant we were often able to obtain financing without any security pledge so I wouldn't anticipate us doing anything different or unusual in that regard. I think I'll just supplement on the cap rate forecast not that I got a crystal ball about unity but generally cap rates reflects many factors is a one rate for all type of tools. Of course the market is telling us what this should be through transactions. But going forward of course is the combination of factors of interest rates. Craig mentioned about the rental growth outlook. Generally of course the market likes to have a high cap rate to compensate negative outlook and also the interest rate, the et cetera, supply, of course, generally, if you ask me, in general over the many years,

Prime Access tends to have the holding the cap rate quite strong because of basic scarcity. And then I could not imagine that central property would have a lot of supply anytime soon anyway. So the central remains quite a scarce product. So this is the factor that the one should, well, decentralised areas always have opportunities for supply, but whereas really prime assets rarely have a large, with interest rate cycle trending down. Of course, the supply remains tight. Of course, the outlook that may not be positive for cap rates is probably rental growth. But would I see that, again, I hesitate to quote a number. Of course, no one would know anyway. It's a pure guess. But would I see a big expansion in cap rates that I have not seen any factors that unless

Hong Kong capital market becomes irrelevant in the global scene and that really affects Central. Of course, Central is a proxy of the activity of the capital market as well. So unless that's changed, but the Central Authority support of Hong Kong as a financial center, I don't see again Hong Kong staying irrelevant any time soon. So all in all, I think yes, it's uncertain about the cut cap rate predictions, but if you lump in all these factors in one goal, huge expansion in cap rates given the circumstances, I have not seen that. The valuation probably again is a function of again the cap rate plus rental growth, rental level. Okay, there's one there's one further question which I think we've answered but just to round it out from Joe who were Rondell

Investments he was asking about our dividend outlook and pay out ratio and I think I've answered that question from the floor And there's a second question about highlights on our Hong Kong and mainland retail sales performance, which I think Robert you've already touched on So we've addressed those questions already Okay, no more questions from the floor. Correct. Okay Well, I can confirm that your culture remains the same. That has been very kind to me. The question today, you know, even though I'm stepping down from the current post by the end of this year, unfortunately, you will still probably seeing me from time to time because I stay at the advisor of Hong Kong land going forward. So I quite look forward to seeing you all, you know, in a different capacity in future. Thank you very much for the participation today. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.