FY 2025 Full-Year Financial Results Webcast Briefing

Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining Starhouse Foyo 25 results call. I'm Crystal at the Cup investor relations and today this morning we have with us our senior management. That by our chief executive, which you can see if you're Jackie low. Matt Williams chief of consumer. Thank you, young chief of enterprise business group. As usual, Nick you and our senior management will bring us through a quick presentation. Well open before we open the floor to Q&Es. Thank you. Over to you. Okay, thank you everyone. Good morning everyone. Thank you for taking the time to spend with us. As we all know, this is a very interesting time. One of real dynamic flux in the sector, you know, bad and good. So thank you for the listening to how we have been navigating really the past quarter and the past year and how we intend to drive the coming year. Now, all of what we do is with a view to positioning for superior outcomes to the end of this dynamic period,

really 27 and beyond, and to drive long-term total shareholder in time. So just to recap from prior calls, our view of dynamic floods across four areas is as follows. First in consumer. As we all know, there is sector consolidation underway with the fourth operator acquiring the third operator. We have seen significant market down draft, of course, driven by these smaller operators. And this has and will change, and not just because of consolidation. We can talk about that some more in the Q&A. Now on the enterprise side, in Singapore, there is a very material spend environment on the government and large enterprise side of things, driven by smart city, tech refresh, and cloud and AI transformation. There is a much narrower competitive set here than consumer. and we are well positioned to drive returns. Number three, cybersecurity, the issue of the day. We're all hearing about UNC 3886 and it's something that's existential.

So all critical infrastructure providers, all critical infrastructure providers will have to invest, but not all are equally positioned. And last cost and capital spend, all operators have a pressing imperative to reduce cost and pre-app capital. With cloud digitalization and AI, there is the opportunity to do so, but again, not all are equally positioned. So I'd like to take each of these and stay on the same page and align against our current actions and plans if you will permit me. So first on consumer, we really believe startup to some degree sets the tone for the market because we are in the Singapore market, the only operator that really has a really leadership position across each of and all of the premium segment, the digital segment and the value segment. So a category leader across each and all of these segments. Now, as we stated for the past many quarters, our intent is to be aggressive and take market share ahead of and going into the consolidation.

But really over the last quarter and for the coming year, we intend to do this in a very nuanced way. So for instance, in MOBA, we intend to reduce sub erosion at the premium end of the market, to hold at the digital end and to grow at the value end. But to be very clear, we intend to do this not by price-leading strategies, but by growing quality and value differentiation. So improving sub-monetization and hence moving the market up. So I welcome and encourage all of you to take a close look at these important trends both for us and the rest of the market now and going forward over the coming quarters. Now, interestingly, while obviously we were significantly down year on year in mobile, when you actually look on a quarter on quarter basis in Q4, we were actually zero erosion of revenue being flat on our roof and up on subs. So we believe we grew revenue market share. You know, as you know, we had a lead to the number three operator of about 600 basis points before they stopped reporting.

And we now believe that lead is higher. We have also improved monetization and both the premium as well as the value end of the market. So we believe the market is slowly stabilizing and we intend to set the basis for recovery and we intend to do more of this over the coming year. Now for broadband, similarly for Q4, on a quarter on quarter basis, we were also zero erosion and we are holding quite well with our two brands. First of all, Starhub, the premium end and MyRepublic, which is our very successful digital savvy brand focused on geeks and gamers. And overall, of course, in broadband, we are the number one player and our lead holds in a market which is 85% controlled by us and the incumbent. So moving on to enterprise, which is really the second pillar of our strategy and very important. We had growth over the past year. And in fact, if you look at Q4, our year-on-year growth accelerated. Now Kit Yong will break this down, but overall we did this with our modern digital infrastructure model,

which is unique as a platform model among the service providers. So we continue to see strong traction with government and large enterprise regionally, but frankly, very much in Singapore. The spend environment is strong and with our model, we are winning an increasing number of large deals, which we define as over $5 million and over $10 million in what is an increasing order book. So going forward, you will see us continuing to scale our regional enterprise business and investing to do so in three ways. First, we will continue evolving our modern digital infrastructure platform with more tech, more tools, with partners, but really partners embedded, not a reseller SI model. Number two, we will continue to scale our book of business with existing and new customers. And number three, we are growing our all through hiring and rolling up smaller players left by the wayside. So what you see in terms of investment is in a degree reflected in our outlook. Now the third pillar, cybersecurity. So all of you have read about the existential threats

We are facing at a national level as articulated publicly by Minister Shanmogam last year and Minister Josephine just earlier this week. And of course, telcos like in any country are at the apex of this. Now, Starhub is a major telco running critical infrastructure and also serving government and large enterprises. For us, cyber is also existential and we have, and especially this year, we will continue to make significant investments this year in cyber. Now also as a major telco, we believe we are early and the smaller operators will also need to make significant investments. So this will to some degree, break down any cost arbitrage that has been enjoyed in the past. Now in the medium and long-term, these cyber investments which add to the security of our platform make sense. They secure ourselves and they secure the modern digital infrastructure platform we are serving our government and enterprise customers with. And there is strong awareness in the customer universe of the need for this, which translates into further differentiation for us.

Last but not least on cyber, many of you have been waiting for the news really on the divestiture to our co-shareholder of the 17% stake in Ensign associated with the assignment of rights. I would like to update this is in quite advanced stages and we should realize material proceeds in a significant game while at the same time retaining a significant stake for strong collaboration in cyber and we will update further on this in Q1. And the fourth pillar of course is cost optimization. And therefore, while we make investment to stabilize and grow our business, it is imperative that we continue to make cost reduction. Now clearly we have the opportunity to do so by virtue of building platforms as part of our DAER plus transformation. So this is really the next phase. So we have, as we updated in the last quarter or two, we have targeted four areas, legacy decommissioning, which is the small leftover piece from DAER plus, which is unfinished business to be finished soon.

Systems re-architecture on IT, where we are moving to a DevOps model which generates significant savings, but also improved business agility, business simplification in consumer, and network optimization, which is really automation of the hybrid multi-cloud architecture that we built. So we are of course pleased to confirm our prior target of 60 million, which we had posted with you. And we have actually also pleased to confirm that we are increasing this to 70 million. Now these are run rate cost savings targets and you should expect us to execute this over 2026 with savings realized at the backend of 2026 but really 2027 and 2028. And then I'd like to conclude on this page by stating that last but not least all of our goals are supported by our strong balance sheet and capital structure with our very significant cash war chest, our desire and ability to continue to do emanate to further our goals and our ability to support our dividend commitments. Hence, as Jackie will confirm with you, we are reaffirming our six cents per share for 2026

as we navigate this dynamic flux period in the telco sector here in Singapore. So just covering briefly our financial highlights on the next page, profiling some of the numbers, our service revenue was down 1.3% for the year, down 5% for the second half. Our rebidar was down to about 400 million for the year, so 12%, and our net profit was down about 29% to 100 million. Now these results were reflective essentially of a consumer telco market, primarily in mobile, that has been in a hyper competitive vortex that continues to shift downwards from premium to value, which has been ongoing for the last couple of years, whereas it's a smaller operators and particularly the fourth operator has driven its low cost model. We believe that will reverse with consolidation but more important, critical infrastructure service provision requirements, which necessitate significant investments in cybersecurity and resilience. Now, this downward shift in mobile in particular of 8% in service revenue when applied towards,

you know, telco operating leverage, hence the telco fixed cost structure, then magnifies EBITDA reductions. And then when you apply them against fixed capital charges in the form of depreciation really become quite large net profit reductions. So moderate percentage reductions get multiplied to very significant percentage reductions in net profit. Now, as mentioned, the pending consolidation is a change and also a change in the critical infrastructure provide a landscape which is perhaps underappreciated but just as important and we believe this will introduce greater prosperity across the operators, major and minor. Now all of these negative trends are offset to some degree by growth on all metrics in our regional enterprise business but not enough as we continue to invest in scaling the business and making investments upfront for future growth. And then last but not least again I'd like to to restress nevertheless our balance sheet cap structure and cash remain very strong, allowing us to continue our commitment to shareholder return through this flux period for the double shifts in Singapore.

So Jackie, over to you. All right, thank you, Nikhil. Since Nikhil has already covered some of the financial highlights and strategic contracts, I'll focus on a few key points. As a reminder, our 2024 numbers included two months of the career contribution prior to its divestment in February, 2024. So there's a slight base back there comparing year on year. So turning to 2025 performance, total operating expenditure was up 3.2% year on year, mainly due to higher cost of sales and operating expenses. Cost control remains a priority for us and we continue to scrutinize discretionary spend as part of our broader cost optimization program. And I'll provide more updates in the coming slides. Other income was higher for the year, primarily due to income grants. EBITDA for 2025 came in at 403.6 million, reflecting lower gross profit from segments facing revenue pressure, alongside the higher operating expenditures I just mentioned.

Reported net profit attributable to shareholders was 86.4 million, down year on year due to lower EBITDA and higher depreciation and amortization. This translates to earnings per share of 4.5 cents. Free cash flow was negative 24.7 million for the full year, largely driven by the earliest spectrum payment in the first half of the year. Excluding this impact, underlying cash generation remains intact and we are on track to return to positive free cash flow in 2026. On financing, we have proactively managed our maturity profile. We refinance borrowing still in 2025 and raised 300 million in bonds in November last year to refinance bonds maturing in June, 2026. We also drew down the spectrum loan last June. Net debt to EBITDA ratio stands at two times, factoring in the spectrum loan.

Interest coverage remains healthy at 9.4 times. Overall, our liquidity position remains strong and well within covenant thresholds. Next slide. So in terms of our actual performance versus outlook previously provided for 2025, we have delivered across all key metrics. Service revenue performance was supported by continued growth in enterprise managed services, which helped offset pressure in other segments. EBITDA came in at 92.2% of 2024 adjusted EBITDA, ahead of our guidance range of 88 to 92%. percent. CapEx commitment was 6.7 percent of total revenue, better than our expectations reflecting disciplined capital allocation. We are proposing a final dividend of three cents per share, bringing total to 2025 dividend to six cents per share. While this exceeds our policy range in percentage terms, it reflects our confidence in the underlying cash profile and bondship resilience.

I'll now hand over to Matt for the consumer update. Thank you, Jackie. Good morning, everybody. Great to be able to share with you a view of the consumer business, first of all, on the performance itself. So the market has remained highly competitive in this quarter. But in that very competitive market, we have had improving stability of the business. So stable from Q3 to Q4, as Nikhil mentioned. When we look at the two main lines of business, in mobile we retain our strong number two market share position, and that is with stable who despite the levels of price competition in the market and growth in subs gaining 18,000 subscribers in the quarter. Some of the highlights there are the launch of our 5G Unlimited Plus plans under the Starhub brand, we were seeing a very strong customer response and continued growth of our eight mobile business. In broadband, we have retained our number one market share position, again with stable

output despite the intense price competition in the market and also stable customers here. One thing to note in terms of revenue performance is we did see a shift in the treatment of our Netflix bundles, moving some revenue from broadband to entertainment. But aside from that, the business was largely stable. If we turn to some of the highlights from the quarter, again, in the market, we saw a lot of price competition. In mobile, we continue to see value players orientating around the $10 or $12, including with a number of offers for seniors at $5 or $6, which as Nikhil said, are very low prices by any measure. On broadband we see increasing price competition with more and more players offering at the $30 mark or even below including for the 10 gigabit per second plan. In that context we continue to lead the market with some of our initiatives including around Starhub on mobile the launch of the 5G

unlimited plus plans where we are really setting out to fully meet the needs of consumers with unlimited data roaming included other benefits like like cybersecurity and we're seeing a very strong consumer response to those plans. We're seeing an uplift in the customers joining us and also strong positive movements of customers in the base. So that's tracking very well and we'll continue to see that through the course of 2026. In entertainment, we have continued to build the partnership of MediaCorp that we announced previously. And this is really about two things. One is the monetization of our content by getting that to the Media Corp subscribers, through MeWatch in particular, and also monetizing our media through the combined ad sales, of course, across the Media Corp and StarHub properties. On broadband, in this very tough market, we remain fully competitive, and so we have been expanding our distribution reach and will be aggressive in matching on prices

wherever we need to. We are the market leader and we will continue to be there. Finally, on Market Reach, we have re-energized our Starhub brand with our Hublings Green Men campaign launched in Q4 and also expanded our Market Reach with a new retail store in Suntech, which is doing very well. In our 8 business, we continue to grow subscribers very successfully and are now shifting to monetize those subscribers, particularly in mobile, in seeing a strong shift of customers moving from the 4G8 and $11.80 plans to the 5G14.80 plan. So clear signs that even the very price-sensitive 8 customers value quality and are prepared to step up their spend to get it. We also launched broadband and we're seeing a very strong traction around that, very good initial customer uptake at the end of the quarter with 8 customers wanting all of their connectivity needs met, which is of course what we're doing now by offering

broadband to those customers as well. And then finally on MyRepublic, we concluded the acquisition, have made strong progress on the integration, but also have built even better momentum in that business. And that's despite those very tough market conditions. And that really comes about because of the differentiation that is built into that business with that we are now expanding further with things like our very unique Card Arena store, also at Suntech, where we're seeing an amazing level of uptake of selling things like Pokemon cards. It's really going deep into the segment, but so far, proving to be a very strong competitive position for us. So maybe we turn to the next page. I wanted to share with you a view of our strategy, particularly as we look to 2026. And probably the key thing here is that we have a very clear strategy that we are now very tightly executing around throughout the startup business. And that's That's really in two parts. So the first is with Starhub, we are taking a lead as the quality provider in the market,

obviously offering a complete suite of mobile broadband entertainment products, but really offering complete packages, high quality, complete value propositions, high quality network and high quality service, and then all of the other features, including those entertainment benefits. And so we see growing momentum in this business, and we are really positioning very strongly for market recovery. In addition to that, we're also very clear in terms of our focus on serving all other segments with our challenger brands. And so there are three that we have here. There is eight, which of course serves the value seekers in the market. We've seen very strong growth and we now have quite a sizable customer base in this business, which is really about continuing to take a lead on value, sustain that rapid growth, but more and more monetize that growth by offering those customers better and additional products too. In Giga we serve the digital savvy segment. We're seeing this very stable. These customers

love the Giga brand and so here we are really looking to see how we can get it to more customers across Singapore. And then finally as mentioned my Republic, this is really serving me geeks and gamers but here we're building out a business with strong differentiation and as a And as a result of that, we're seeing sustained and even accelerating growth of that business. So very clear strategy overall, but also providing comprehensive coverage of the market, leaving us positioned very well for the improving market structure and expected market recovery. So with that, I'll pass to Kit Yong to talk about enterprise. Thank you, Matt. Now when it comes to enterprise segment itself, you guys mentioned that the many services, F-135 we grew 5.3 percent right and overall region of the private business is at 2.9 percent and you know that there is a second half we have a marginal year-on-year down and it's due to project

services recognition so there's too much to the bottom but more importantly if you look at the regional enterprise business itself our integration with the nation entities is progressing very well for us. We are seeing joint wins, right? Most uh, syndicate will be the RTS9, King Johor in Singapore line because of capabilities both in Malaysia and Singapore. We want the business and there is a good proof that our integration is working and the market is actually recognizing it that we have a robust interesting conversation to have when it comes to cross-border capabilities. And also, not to forget, the cholesterol connected distance we have between Singapore and Malaysia. We're also seeing early signs of attraction and we're continuing to look at the Singapore emulation business as an integrated business entity. And this year, we're definitely looking at building our regional degree center there to build our capability to support Singapore business to lower our cost for enterprise customer.

At the same time, building capability is for Malaysia business, right? And these new capabilities will help them to expand their business into enterprise market where it operates and they will have better synergy and better capabilities to serve the local market. So it brings a double synergy for both Singapore and Malaysia market and we are, everyone is very looking forward to grow this piece of business together as one team. Now, and also look at the enterprise growth on the cyber security services, right? It's It's growing year on year as well. And there's a strong robust demand for cybersecurity. I will see that it will continue to grow as well. So overall, the enterprise segment is heading with a growth phase for us right next. Now, if you look at the state of play that we have, and there's a very strong demand from the government enterprise, as it's spent around the cybersecurity, and because of regulation compacted is coming in, the more attention is given to cybersecurity

and you can see the span will grow significantly. And on top of that, all enterprise governments is moving into digital transformation as they continue to cloud AI and data. All these are very critical infrastructure they need to build for themselves. And we see that we are well positioned this because in between the digital and the high infrastructure they have is a platform. The platform gap is the real gap that start up today, we are plugging in to our modern digital infrastructure to enable them to integrate between the high infrastructure, traditional silos that they have and the digital things that they are doing. And we are able to integrate and make it work altogether. And there is the advantage that we are shifting into. And because we have this platform itself, we can able speed expertise that we invested in it. And because connecting is the common for all clients and where we know them, they know us, and that's how we can grow together with them

in their journey into intelligent the price of a smart nation. Now, just I mentioned of a strong Singapore military integration, getting momentum and we're underway and we're building the region to reset up, to power our growth and boost our profitability as well and our proficiency. Now, at the back of the strong demand of government enterprise demand, You can see that the things we do is actually not pure SI, not pure telco, it's actually somewhere in between, where this is a space where it's very little competition. And that is where managed services will grow because you cannot have a subscription based services that's highly robust and it has to be managed. So managed services for us is a key team where it drives the whole platform business and we're seeing good traction from the clients in adopting managed services as a way of engaging startup in a new way. And we see the new growth in our business from that in a sense, right? Next slide.

So if you look at the evolution of our enterprise strategy, it's not born overnight. What started since the 2013 when we talked about modern digital infrastructure, where we have cloud infinity, happy modern architecture that sets the foundation for us to build a modern digital infrastructure. And we lay with our platform on target. And last year we scale our business, we integrate Singapore Malaysia business. And we have more than what Nikhil had mentioned, we have actually more mounting million dollar recurring contracts, recurring revenue contract we find price clients. And we look forward very much this year. And you can see that last year we also have a grow, growing order book every year as we progress since 2020. And coming to today, 2026 and next year to the 2027, it's a year of capital deployment where we will discuss the issue of Nikhil and Jackie working into selective M&A. To do what? To scale capabilities.

So SRA ability to develop platform that suits the customer needs and they just engage our platform without doing development and it's a tested, proven, resilient infrastructure platform that we build for them. and accelerate their needs into increasing needs of cybersecurity resiliency, accelerate the use of digital, accelerate the use of data, accelerate the use of IoT for the use cases. So that is where we want to accelerate together with our clients. And finally, the future shift that we've go for is that we have to expand beyond the mature telco revenues because telco revenues is a passive network. As we build a modern digital infrastructure, it become an active, intelligent platform. There'll be a part of the world class engaging new use cases using 5G, data AI, analytics, and powered with automation as a big deal that's super critical for us. And with that, that will definitely improve our revenue quality and our margin quality as well.

With that, I hand over to Jackie. Thank you, Kiyo. As Nikhil mentioned, we have expanded our course optimization efforts into a structured multi-year strategic program aimed at achieving minimum efficient scale. So the objective is very clear. We are resetting our foundational cost base in order to build a leaner and more agile startup that is structurally positioned for profitable growth. The program focuses on four pillars, legacy decommissioning, network optimization, system re-architecture, and business simplification. We previously shared that we expect to achieve total savings of 60 million between 2026 and 2028. In the last quarter, we have continued to make progress and identify an additional 10 million of savings under network optimization on top of what was communicated before. This increases the total expected savings to 70 million across 2026 to 2028. This is not a one-off exercise.

It's a discipline and iterative process. These are early savings opportunities identified and give us confidence that future further opportunities will continue to emerge as we move deeper into execution and implementation. We'll continue to provide transparent updates on savings identified and realized in future quarters. Our next page. Turning to 2026. So we see 2026 as a year of discipline execution. In consumer, we'll continue to defend market share while focusing on service differentiation. In enterprise, we'll continue to invest to drive growth in managed services and modern digital infrastructure platform solutions. We expect EBITDA to be in the range of 75 to 80% of 2025's EBITDA. This reflects sustained competitive intensity in consumer and our decision to retain commercial flexibility where needed. This will be partially offset by stronger performance

in enterprise and early benefits from our cost optimization program. HEPAC's commitment is expected to be 13 to 15% of total revenue, including investment in IT, network, and most importantly, cybersecurity. These are discipline investment aligned to long-term competitiveness and operational resilience. On dividends, for 2026, we are targeting to distribute six cents per share or in line with our dividend policy, whichever is higher. It takes into account business conditions, cash flow generation, and ongoing investment requirements. Our balance sheet remains healthy. Cash balance stood at 857 million as at the end of 2025, and we expect positive free cash flow in 2026. Net debt to give it a ratio of standards two times, providing adequate headroom. Overall 2026 is about absorbing near-term pressure,

while tightening structural costs and continuing to invest selectively. These actions are intended to position start-up for improved operating leverage and earnings resilience beyond 2026. With that, I'll hand the time back to Nikhil to close. Thank you, Jackie. Yes, so to summarize and to conclude and summarize our priorities for 2026. So first in consumer, if consolidation happens, this will be roughly speaking in revenue market share terms the 50-25-25 market today in mobile. And in broadband, we are number one with over 40% revenue market share. We intend to continue organically accreting our market share upwards over the year, but with quality and differentiated value, not price. Hence we intend to do this by increasing customer lifetime value and raising monetization across all our brands, from StarHub at premium, to Giga and MyRepublic at digital, to ATID value. Now in an enterprise, as you heard,

we will continue to aggressively grow our modern digital infrastructure platform in our government and enterprise customer environments. The opportunity remains strong. We have unique infrastructure-based platform model that our customers prefer and continue to come back to. And we intend to invest a scalar platform to serve our existing customers more while growing our base of new customers whom we have seen ramp up with us quite quickly. Number three, as we talked about, cybersecurity is an existential threat. We intend to invest in cyber defense materially in line with the national agenda. And over the mid to long term, this will add to our differentiation and our strategic positioning for ourselves as well as with our customers. And in essence, modern digital infrastructure is secure modern digital infrastructure. And last cost optimization, we have a very significant funnel of run rate savings that is granular and bottoms up, leveraging the DER plus platforms that we have built and we will execute methodically against this funnel and hopefully also add to this funnel as we continue.

So through this year, as we execute, we reaffirm our commitment to shareholders and give dividends and otherwise and look forward to keeping you posted in our progress squatter on quarter. Thank you very much. Thanks, Nikhil. We'll now open the floor if you need. So as usual to join the question queue, please click on the recent walkers. We'll call upon your name and it's your time to speak and then you can unmute yourself to comment. I think we already have a line up so far, maybe we'll call away. Oh, hello. Thanks for having me. I'm from Hongwei from OCBC. I just have three questions. Okay, so on the first, I noticed that Ibita fell, it fell more than what revenue actually fell for mobile. So mobile, I think it fell by about 40 plus million and service Ibita fell by more than 50 million. So my first question is that are there some mobile customers that are not really EBITDA contributing? And or does it mean that other segments

seeing a margin compression? That means non-mobile sites also seeing margin compression. So that's my first question. Then my second question is that you mentioned there's 60 million to 70 million cost savings per annum. But EBITDA is still guided to come down and is coming down quite fast next year. I mean, Grunter you mentioned about consumer business competition, but how does that actually square against the cost savings you are saying? And the other part is about lifetime value. How do we think about lifetime value when Ibita is coming down very strongly next year? I mean, this in 2026, does it mean Ibita after 2026 should be going up very strongly thereafter? And maybe I find the question is on the sustainability of the cash flow. the dividends that's been declared is actually higher than the dividend policy. Do you think that this is sustainable? Net debt to the EBITDA, I mean, trailing traumas, the EBITDA is really much higher than where it was before. So is there any plans to push it down? And related to this, this is okay.

Keeps of 13 to 15% is higher than before. So why has this climb up and what's your view on this? Okay, so let me cover all five questions very briefly and then I'll hand off to my colleagues to take them piece by piece, you know, Jackie, as well as Matt. So for your first question, EBITDA falling by more in dollar terms and the reduction in consumer revenue, it's not that we have non-EBITDA contributing customers. We have incurred cost on things like cyber and other things, but Jackie can elaborate. Second thing in terms of our cost savings and our run rate and how they impact kind of 2026 and 2027, we will be executing on this $70 million targeted run rate cost savings methodically through 2026. A small portion of it will come through by the end of 2026,

but really the vast bulk of it will come through in 2027 and 2028. And I'm very sensitive and applaud the question because with the prior DAIR plus cost savings, we realized the DAIR plus cost savings. And then frankly, we gave those cost savings away to the consumer market. We do believe that will change. So our intent is for these cost savings to hopefully flow through into our run rate topics and frankly, our run rate EBITDA with a turnaround in that EBITDA trajectory. You asked a question around lifetime value, And I'll hand off to Matt on that. Yes, the market is coming down, but we expect the market to stabilize and recover. To some degree, that process has already started. We expect to gather pace towards the end of the year and beyond. But frankly, it's more important is what we do. And over the last quarter, with our new plans, the 5G Unlimited Plus, as well as other measures

that we are taking, actually, we have grown our customer lifetime value in a way that contrary into the market. So we hope to continue that. It's still early days, we hope to accelerate the momentum of that and that flowing through to the rest of 2026, more important 2027. So we don't offset those cost savings that we generate and frankly we actually generate more customer driven value and revenue but do be patient with us. On the sustainability of cash flow and dividends, yes, you know, very much sustainable. You know, our balance sheet is very strong, our cash balances are very strong. You know, free cash flow goes up and down in terms of working capital and one-off needs like the 700 megahertz spectrum. But cash flow fundamentals are strong to add to an already strong balance sheet, Chappy can elaborate on that. And then number five, to to your point on, to your pickup on the capex as a percentage of revenue moving up. As I

mentioned, we are making significant investments in cyber. We have already made significant investments in cyber, we intend to do more. We are front loading that because it's the right thing to do and want to build long term differentiation. And as I said, you know, others in particular, you know, the smaller operators will also have to make investments. So you know, with our thesis, we think it's existential, we're doing this, it's the thing to do long-term, it will create benefit and that's what's taking up a capitalist percentage of revenue. But you know maybe we'll just double click on each of those quickly. On your first question, right, I think if you look at the consumer side, there's also an increase in 5G cost, so that continues to increase and without the benefit of the revenue or from pricing. So that's number one. And number two, if you recall in 2024, in our cost, that's actually a reversal of $27 million for debt plus provision we make in prior years. So we actually utilize that and reduce our cost in 2024. So it's a one off. So

if you normalize that year on year, then you can see why this kind of increase in cost and lower our EBITDA more than revenue decline. I hope that answers your questions. But to be clear on the 5G, as you know, the typical structure and it was the same with us in 4G's, that was CAPEX and it was depreciated. But effectively with the Antina model where we pay wholesale costs, that moves to our banks. Okay. Sorry. Just okay. Yeah. And in terms of like 2026, like the way we look at it, so cost savings, obviously it will gradually help reduce the run rate, but it's a three years program. And for 2026, most of the savings from that 70 million will be coming from the legacy decommissioning and also from business simplification. But a majority of the 70 million is on systems and on network. So these are structural changes, which will take time to scale up and they will be like occurring in 27 and 2028. So that's kind of like the cost savings,

but we intend to like continue to reduce and find more opportunities. But in terms of Yibida, if you look at 2026, So consumer remains very competitive. That's pressures on margin. And also I think we want to retain some flexibilities like in terms of just maintaining and gaining market share. So I think that's very clear. And also on the enterprise side, I think Keit-Yong mentioned earlier, we actually want to build up the capabilities and scale up the business. So that would be a significant investment to actually drive that growth and build for the medium to long-term. So that's the investment we're gonna make in 2026. So that hopefully answer your cost savings questions. And in terms of sustainability of cash flow, if you look at our cash balance at the end of the year, we have over 850 million and our leverage ratio is still low. So we actually have room to increase the ratio. And also like even if we pay off the ballot form

maturing in June this year, we still have sufficient cash flow. And as I mentioned, in 2026, we expect free cash flow will return to positive. So all these, we are in a very good cash positions. And so we will be deploying the cash to drive organic growth and also return to capital to shareholders, just to drive total shareholders return. But definitely, we have the capacity to do that. And CapEx, I think Nikhil already explained, the majority of that increase is coming from the cybersecurity side and less of a portion will be coming in on the network as well.

Just to add on customer lifetime value, so if we break down customer lifetime value and link it back to the very clear, strong and fully refreshed strategy that we have for our consumer business, Do you think about those three pieces of customer lifetime and value? On customer, we are very active and very competitive in market to continue to grow our customer base, which we have done successfully in the last quarter. And that's important because as the market recovers, there will be significant value in having a larger other than a smaller number of customers. In terms of the value, we're also very deliberate in building out value by offering those better quality products as I gave the example of monetizing 5G with our eight customers. So those mechanisms are well in place and are starting to show the green shoots of growth around the spend from customers. And then finally on lifetime, we are also uplifting the experience and quality across all parts of the business to make sure there is never a reason to leave Starhub.

And so those things together as a core part of our strategy will lead to that strong growth and customer lifetime value, particularly as we position for the market recovery. Okay, thank you for the comprehensive answers. Hopefully that overlapped with some other questions. Sorry to take so long with the answers. Maybe we have Arthur next. Hi Arthur. Hi, good morning. Hi, thanks for the opportunity. Yeah, several questions. Firstly, if you can help us reconcile on the numbers, when DARE plus was launched in 2021, the target then was to grow profits by $220 million. That was a stated target then. And when you look at the revenue erosion for consumer business over the same period, you've seen this decline by around $50 million since that's happened. the earnings impact has been far more pronounced. What has happened to the plan benefits for their Plaszwizit

eroded the wave with other segments like enterprise, for instance? That's the first question. The second question is with regard to the EBITDA outlook for 2026, does this include the removal of your cyber business, which could be sold, I understand, maybe in one queue? I'm just trying to figure out how we're going to 20 to 25% EBITDA decline when we're actually looking at cost savings as ramping up from 60 million to 70 million over the next two or three years. That's the second question. Third question is just with regard to revenue guidance for 2026, where do you see the industry revenues as headed into 2026? Thank you. Yeah, again, if you don't mind, maybe I'll do the shop lash answer on all three things and then I'll leave it to, you know, Jackie and Matt, because I think you're really talking about consumer telco right on the industry side.

Yeah, okay. Yeah, so just to go back to their class, and maybe I'll start since since Jackie wasn't here, although I'm sure he's familiar with all the numbers. You know, when we launched AirPlus, we posted kind of an aggregate increased target of 500 million, but that was kind of cumulative in dollar terms, which was about 280 million in cost savings and 220 million in revenue. And what we said at the time, if you recall, was that would translate actually not to 200 million, but actually 80 million incremental net profit. 80 million incremental net profit. But applying the same percentages, so therefore that would be something like about 60% from cost reduction and about 40% from, you know, gross margin increase through increase in revenue. You know, just to taking each of those pieces, you know, on the revenue side of things, whilst we were able to grow the enterprise business, sadly, in terms of the consumer telco market, you know, that went the other way for reasons we're all acutely familiar with.

Going back to the cost side, and the 60% or 56% rather of that $80 million, dollars. We were able to generate most of that. The piece of that continues to be delayed, which we hope to realize this year, the decommissioning of the legacy savings, which weren't particularly significant and certainly not significant relative to our current funnel. But the rest of those cost savings, frankly, were given away to the consumer through the hyper competitive vortex that we saw. So that's some quick clarity. You know, on the EBITDA, yes, the EBITDA reductions, I believe, include the deconsolidation of cyber with a 17 as we go down to a 40% stake. But I don't want to overstress that because the contribution to EBITDA, you know, the cyber of N-Sign is not particularly significant at all. And then number three in terms of industry revenue, it's really hard to speculate, but

But as we said, we see early signs of stabilization in the market. We believe that will continue and perhaps hopefully even accelerate in the back half of this year. As we said, that's partially dependent on consolidation, but partially also frankly from the fact that I think the, let's call it the cost free ride, goes away because everyone is now going to be, if you haven't already been, they're going to be desiccated. critical infrastructure provider, so much more costs to come. And yes, I think 2027 and beyond industry revenues should rise if everyone does the right thing, which is a logical thing to do, because pricing increases, as we've seen from other markets, drops right down to the bottom line. Unfortunately, so far, we've been the other way, right? The operating leverage has not been positive, it's been negative. But with that, perhaps I'll hand off to Jackie to take the first two. Yeah, so I don't have much more to add to the depth plus, I think Nick you touched on

that. But in terms of like the 2026, you've been declined. So let me try to reconcile for you. So first of all, and science impact is very insignificant. So that's not the reason, as I mentioned earlier, so I, the major impact is coming from like, first of all, consumer side. So we see the industry continue to be very additive. pressure on profitability on the margin. And also we talk about like we want to defend and gain market share. So we'll be focused on that and preserve like a, yeah, to actually fight in that area. So that's number one. And number two, we talk about like the significant investment in the enterprise side to help Keong build like the scale and the capabilities. So there'll be significant investment in the enterprise side. On top of that, there's a impact for our investment cybersecurity. And last but not least, there will be a higher year on year in terms of depreciation, interest because of the spectrum right we obtained in 2025. So that will be a full year impact in

2026. So all these costs like Yibida, to decline year on year. That will be offset, obviously, by the cost optimization exercise, but also for the enterprise growth. But that will not be enough to offset some of these investments and also the pressure on short-term optics. We are doing the right things to actually build profitability resilience for the medium to long term. Sorry, can I just clarify with regard to the spending for the enterprise and all, is that coming in as capex or opex? If it is opex, is it just front loaded and we should expect things to decline from the next year onwards? Is that how we should look at this? Yeah, let me take that and Kid Young if you want to add details please. But yeah, there's a bit of capex and there's some opex. The opex that is being spent is to scale the organization.

Is it front loaded? Let me just be very specific. It increases the run rate, but there is a lead time that we have observed in the past where we will have a return through increased contracts, increased revenue, improved margins on the business that we do because we're controlling our own resources. And you know, we've seen that coming through quite well in the past. So we're essentially continuing, you know, that kind of cycle of growing the business, invest in more resources and capabilities, generate the return on those resources and capabilities, and then continue growing our returns in the business. Anything you have? I think you have addressed that. Definitely a mixture of both CapEx and Allpax. Yeah. Where we invest CapEx, we build our infrastructure, which is network-based because today our network is built currently for consumer use and as we move to enterprise business, we build modern digital structure. We need to re-tool our infrastructure to be more dedicated,

to be more secure for enterprise use case, as well as for government use case. So that is where we deploy CapEx into our own network infrastructure and into the cybersecurity, which is critical for our clients that is a requirement. It's not, it's an if, it's a must have, right? Now, anyway, it comes to impact itself, like what the DICAS does, right? We also looking at definitely have capabilities in terms of people, OpEx on technology services, we're increasing a lot of technology services, OpEx based. So we did a mixture of both coming together to deliver many services because it's recurring revenue. You will either have a consistent cost as well from our partners and develop appropriate investments or CapEx so that we can operate this for more than years, over the years so we can amortize away. Yeah, so there's a mixture of how we are looking enterprise business. Yeah, Arthur, I just wanted to maybe just share a little bit of a flavor. It's not already. It's not because it may not be sort of easily apparent.

You know, on the enterprise side, we're not in the business of selling like lease lines and all that like short cycle, right? So the business is with large deals with government and enterprise, and it's long sales cycle. So with the long sales cycle, either these deals are already in the order book that we built. So that means signed contracts, or they are in advanced stages of pipeline and about to make it to the order book. So these are contracts that are 1 million, 5 million, over 10 million. So when we invest against that, whether it's CapEx or OpEx, we actually have a very, very high degree of visibility on the return that we're going to make, you know, either for these that are already in the order book or through long sales cycle in very advanced stages. And the return comes from number one, fulfilling that revenue and moving into buildings and bookings. Number two, through co-creating use, new use cases with existing contracted customers of ours to add more modules and more revenue. And then number three, in terms of delivering these

against these contracts at higher margin, because we're doing it more with kind of our own resources, the ratio that we're doing it more with our own resources keeps increasing and increasing. So just to give you a little bit of a flavor, this is, you know, high visibility against the investments we make. Arthur, if that answers that question, I might just add a comment on the market recovery, market structure, and maybe bring it back to customers from their point of view. We all live our lives now through the connections that we have through our phones. And what we see very clearly is consumers do value the quality of that experience, the complete inclusions, the quality of the network, the quality of the service. And so we see very clear evidence that as we put together better and better packages and offerings for our customers, they do step up their spend as per the example I gave of AIT and the shift to 5G, what we are seeing with the Starhub 5G Unlimited Plus plans,

what we're seeing with the MyRepublic broadband offerings. And so we can see that that is how consumers are responding to the offerings. But the other thing about these businesses, of course, is that these have high operating leverage. And so we have a laser focus on this, because as we rebuild that spend by offering those better services and packages to consumers, they increase their spend with us, which then has a very sort of powerful effect in uplifting the profitability of the business. So that's clearly where we are focused. So Arthur, we do believe that will translate to the industry as a whole. I think with the incumbent clearly, I think they see life in similar ways to the ways we do. They were clearly smaller operators that kind of led the charge towards like no frills, low price, but I think to some degree, those days maybe over as the cost structures equalize with the critical infrastructure providers landscape. And plus, just sheer economic logic. There's a consolidation happening, you have to defend not just attack.

And then number two, operating leverage has the opportunity to work the right way. That's not lost on anyone. I understand. Thank you very much. Next, maybe we'll see. Yeah, sure. Thanks for the opportunity. Thank you, Usaini. A few questions, thanks again. A few questions from me. First, you go on CapEx. Thank you, Saini. A few questions. Thanks again. A few questions from me. First of all, CAPEX means the range, which is 12% to 15%. It means if I look at your revenue structure, a fair bit of the revenues comes from enterprise, which I understand is a relatively low CAPEX model. It is more of an OPEX model. That's my understanding. Then at the same time broadband is you know the infrastructure is provided by Netlink Trust. So just trying to understand that if we take out those segments then isn't it the capex

to sales for the normalized business which needs infrastructure is appears to be very high. So that's my question if you can help us to understand. The second question is on the balance sheet which is already two times net debt to EBITDA. So trying to understand like where is your comfort level in terms of leverage. And as Jackie said that you are still open to amending opportunities in organic opportunity. And finally on the guidance, again, going back to Arthur's question, if we look at 75 to 80% of 2025, ABITDA is a guidance, then it appears like a decline of almost 80 to 100 dollars. So just trying to understand, like, is there a change in business model on the enterprise side, where you're incurring more OpEx? Why such a big, you know, increase in

OpEx, linked to development of new services? Thank you.

Jackie, you want to clarify again the capex point and take it from there. So I think, Hosseini, if you look at like our BAU CapEx, I think I mentioned before, like after we finished that plus all that transformation, it will come down like for our BAU CapEx. So I think it's reflected in our 2025 CapEx as a percentage of revenue. But I think for 2026, we talk about like there will be significant investment in terms of cyber and also there will be investment in network as well. So we are actually enhancing our network quality and so it's kind of investment to actually achieve some of the savings for network optimization in a program. But overall BAU CapEx will be coming down and but for enterprise it's actually in CapEx in our guidance desk investment on the enterprise side and I think Keong mentioned earlier. So that's kind of like what drove like up the guidance as a percentage of revenue for

2026. But, uh, I just want to repeat the point that I made that the increased in investment, which is reflected in the uptick in the capex as a percentage of revenue is cyber. It is cyber. The majority of the vast majority of it. Okay, go ahead. Sorry, Jack. And then the balance sheet and and to send you asked about the balance sheets and two times net at Tpata and a comfort level with that. And then also I believe it was a dividend, right? Yeah. So I think, yeah, I think I mentioned earlier, like we have very confidence in terms of our balance sheet. So in terms of cash balance, the leverage ratio at two times is still like below our covenant ratio. So we have sufficient headroom. So that was actually helped us to support any like that we talk about for enterprise. Yeah, so I think we are in a very comfortable position in terms of our bond sheet.

So any of the, does that answer your questions quickly? Maybe a bit on guidance, like why such a big increase in op-packs, is there a change in some business structure in terms of operations? And then maybe Nikhil on the gap-packs, on the cyber related investments as well. And maybe you must definitely be discussing with the regulators. So is it more of an industry wide initiative or is it data service taking on its own and that in turn will help you to differentiate in terms of your services or things like that? Thank you. Yeah, so maybe I'll take that and then hand off to Jackie for the prior question. So, you know, it's clear that the, what is needed to be done as a critical infrastructure provider in terms of cyber and the capabilities and the platforms, et cetera, et cetera, for cyber defense.

That is being upleveled because the threat landscape has been upleveled, right, as we've all heard at Nauseam. So in line with that, we are making those investments. We feel they are extremely necessary, to be who we are, to do what we do. and in line with the national issue, but also for us. Now, is it an us issue or an industry issue? It is absolutely an industry issue. I think we are early. I think a lot of the spend and the things that we're doing in terms of the outcomes that we achieve are not absent from the actually leverage some of the platforms that we built in Dev Plus, which give us the ability to do a lot of interesting things around data observability and otherwise. But we are making incremental investments that are quite significant. And those are, you know, an up-leveling of cyber posture. It's not just a start-up issue. It's an industry issue.

But we believe we are early. And we believe others, including the smaller operators, will have to make those investments. And that will be, I think, an interesting dynamic. as we look at the propensity for market stabilization and recovery, because I think unit cost is going forward, it's not gonna be the same as it was in the past for those who might've enjoyed kind of some unit cost arbitrage. So yeah, I hope that answers your question and then I'll hand off to Jackie for the first question. I think on the exhibit, yeah, so to answer, in short, there's no like structural changes to the business. It's more about the investment. I think we talk about the investment. We are front loading the investment in the enterprise side to scale the business, like to build up the capabilities in-house. So all this is actually for 2027. So if you look at the timeline that keep your walkthrough, so this is the year that we will make that investment. So that requires a significant or pack investment.

And also on the cyber front, that's also investment. So I think that's kind of what impact Yipita and Yonya. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Michael, thanks. Sorry, I just have three questions. So I think the first of which is been asked a lot, but I'm still trying to better understand the dividend policy because given your guidance, we're going to see a drop picture of Yipita and we're going through a higher k-pax cycle, especially going into a cyber and all of that. And last of which we're still going to expect to see the cost savings from the legacy decommission coming in, not even in the upcoming year, but after that the next two years, hopefully. So I'm trying to understand the maintenance and sustainability of the dividends being about dividend policy. So maybe a bit more on that. So that's the first. And the second of which is more in the strategy, perhaps more on

For mobile, now we're seeing in this three segments of budget, value and premium. But with the focus in terms of this offering and quality, how we avoiding more or less the cannibalization between especially the budget and value, whether you see erosion in the value that is seen in the value segment. And finally, maybe more on Kid Yong is for the enterprise, I think a key crux in the recurring managed services is the hybrid multi-cloud. And the last time in one of your investor days, you did say that you had a competitive gain advantage, but if a lot of investment going to AI and data centers and more players coming towards that segment, can I just check where do you still see that advantage and how long more do you think your competitors have to be able to catch up to you in terms of that

advantage? Perhaps one other question is, could you also remind us for your managed services, what's your average contract life? Sure. Okay. Okay, Jackie. So I think on the dividend policy, Michael, so I think first of all, our priorities, total shareholders return. So that's including organic growth, you know, organic growth, and also dividend, right? So that's number one. And the cost savings, I just want to clarify is a three years program, but we do expect that will be savings in 2026 as well. In terms of sustainability of making the dividend payment, I mentioned earlier, we have sufficient cash balance. So we have over $850 million cash. Our leverage ratio is low. We expect to return to positive free cash flow in 2026. And also, I think Nikhil mentioned in his prepare remarks, we expect there will be cash policies from the inside divestment as well.

So all this actually gives us a very healthy cash balance and also like a financial position to continue with the success and dividends in 2026. Matt, cannibalization. Yeah, cannibalization. So the thing we've done is as we have refreshed and strengthened our strategy, we've also got very clear in terms of those areas of focus in the market, but also how we operationalize those, how we go to market. And as a result of that, we're now very deliberate in making sure that we are targeting the right customers. But I guess one way to think about it is if you think of, for example, car manufacturers, you have Toyota offering both the Lexus as well as the Toyota brand. And it's a very deliberate strategy to meet the needs of different consumers. And that's what we're doing. So there is, of course, the free choice for consumers to take any of the offerings that we have, but we are very deliberate now in targeting those. We make sure that we're meeting the needs of each consumer group directly.

And as a result of that, we don't see significant levels of cannibalization now. And we feel like we're getting to a very healthy balance in the business. So as we go forward, I feel very comfortable that we can make sure we balance all of those together, meeting the different parts of the market. But also consistently across all of those, there is this very clear theme now of offering better quality experiences to truly meet the needs of each of those segments. And in return, we see clear signs of consumers willing to pay a bit more relative to what they have been paying to get those experiences. So the whole sort of mechanism is starting to work quite well and I can see will really help us as the market recovers. Can you? Right, so first question first is the recruit management services with people spending on AI and in cloud and ways of company advantage, when can competition catch up with us? Now I would say that we operate a very unique space

in our, where we are heading to a modern district infrastructure. It's a space, it's more like a no-man's land where it's either occupied by SI or carrier to sell capacity, SI to build, and actually build a platform and become a unique value proposition based on hybrid market architecture. And actually I see it as a, an increase advantage given the cybersecurity tracks that we are seeing and our enterprise client government always have a dual carrier strategy and the incumbent is definitely the longest standing who has been there and they've been dying to waiting for us to come out with to a point of view that how can we different and differentiate it. And today we are able to see some signs that they see and differentiate with our platform. And because we are nimble and we have less legacy technologies,

we are able to build a digital call up from now from 2.0 to 3.0 until today. And now we are developing the platform competition to co-creation with them. So I see that if you ask about competition-wise, I don't have traditional SI. In fact, I'll replace the traditional SI. Let's try to work on telco and integrator projects. I will see that the telco contains the cell capacity. Well, the rest is more consumer telco, so they're really not in the space that we are operating. So I see a very positive outlook for ourself. Given that you need to do a strategy, you need to have the latest digital call to enable APT resistant architecture. So I think we're well positioned with our modern district structure for our managed services. And to the question of the average contract duration, if today we sell a typical commoditized call telco services for one year contract, maxing the structure two,

when I moved to managed services contract with I think a bit of ICT inside, My contract goes to three years to five years. And once I look at a modern district infrastructure, I'll expect a contract minimally with five years to 10 years. Why? Because there is a heavy capex involvement and the deployment is not at the enterprise environment, it's gonna be island-wide deployment. So that is where we see that the contract needs to be longer for our modern district infrastructure, especially for those large engagement we're dealing with, it will be of that scale and that's why capabilities investment is upfront and we need to able to deploy capital to make it a long term contract and beyond for clients, enterprises and government. That's how I see. I will answer your question. Just one bit is born, how far ahead do you think you are before any of your competitors could even attempt to catch up? Well, if you ask me last year, I would say probably five. You ask me now,

probably it will go up to seven years before companies can catch up with us because of the ever increasing complexity of the technologies that we put in and the know-how integrating all these things together as a platform is going to be more difficult and you need a lot of subject member capabilities to produce a place and to co-creation with the clients with a use case. So it'd be quite difficult for them to replicate so easily. So that's how I see that that's about it for the modern edition for the time being. Yeah, you know, maybe I can add to that. As Kei-Yong said, the two competitor universes are number one SIs and number two, you know, big carrier, right? The smaller operators, rather than the tall in this segment. So with the SIs, it's an aggregator model. They don't have their own infrastructure. They don't drive the contracts off the platform. They bring together little bits and pieces of technology from different providers, put them together, maybe put an orchestration engine on top, which is really not kind of

app development. That's a very different model. It's really not suited for the sort of modern digital infrastructure type use cases that we do. It can't compete in terms of speed. it can't compete in terms of value creation for the client. And it can't compete in terms of even things like price, because you're just aggregating margin. In terms of the big legacy carriers, it's hard to do because you need to re-architect your core quite a lot. And the bigger and the older and prouder you are, makes it more difficult. Now clearly, there's a degree of capability that we were very respectful of our competition, not to say it can't be done, but there's some real hurdles. And those hurdles, as Kiv Young talked about, have actually been made more complex over the last year or two by what we've been talking about in terms of cybersecurity and otherwise. So that's what we'd like to say. Yeah, and not to worry with that.

There is always a dual carrier strategy. Yeah. Right, each one will have to show their own new administration. So to me, it is something that we need to work together with the client. And as we creating not just a modern digital infrastructure, now I think the plus point is that it is a CII managed services. That makes it even more complex. And every CII is different. The earlier we co-create the client, now we have industry knowledge, process know-how, join response in cybersecurity incident for different industry solutions. default difference will be super powerful for us and there was an increasing differentiation for us and help us improve our future revenue in digital services where we will be able to have digital services, industry solution with the very, very strategic plans that we have. So that will be our strategic advantage moving forward that we hope to capture into our journey with our clients. Yeah, I'd just like to highlight one good young,

This is not consumer, right? It's not a fast competitive set, which by the way itself is changed, right? With kind of a dogfight on the street every day. There's a much narrower competitive set and a bias that has a complex set of needs. And the spend environment is very strong because transformation everywhere is underway. There was cloud transformation, you know, first there's tech refresh, then there's cloud transformation and now there's all the stuff you need to do with AI and you need a core digital core in the middle. So I think there's a lot of spend, there's a lot of room. Customers on the enterprise and government side make that choice. There's plenty of room and they make that choice according to what suits them best. The good thing for us is we do it off a platform. It's incredibly value added and accretive, not just for the customer, but also for us. and we will have our natural customer base, and that's what we do.

But the good news is that customer base is growing. I think it's heading in our direction, but there's room for everyone. Okay, thank you.

Given that we've already gone up over time, if there's any further questions, do feel free to reach out. Otherwise, we'll end the call here today. Wishing everyone who's here happy at Lunar Union and speak again sometime soon. Thank you. Thanks for taking the time. Thank you. Thank you.