1H 2025 Financial Results Briefing

Good morning everyone. Welcome to Capital Land Investments First half 2020 25 financial results briefing. I'm Grace Chan Head of Investor Relations. It's wonderful to see everyone this morning. A hard to believe that we're discussing our first half performance again, always in very joyous August as special month for Singapore just past weekend, we celebrated our 60th year of nation building to all Singaporeans Happy National Day. And in case you don't know, 2025 is also a milestone year for CLI, capital and celebrates our 25th year in operations. We're very happy to have a UAVS, our investment community. We have our South Side Analysts members of the media,

as well as our finances. And I know many of you are also viewing us online, so a very warm welcome. Today we will have our senior team, O'Wokas True, our first half results. And first up, we have Mr. Andrew Lim, our group COO for opening remarks and will pass the time to Paul Tom, our group CFO for a difficult, true financials. Andrew, please. Good morning everyone. Welcome to our first post liberation day results briefing. I'm sure all of you are as feeling as liberated as we are, but I just want to rest assured that we are not going to do anything that does not mean

a liberation from our principles of sound, sensible judgment for our journey towards our North Star. I just want to remind everyone that this, what our North Star is for CLI, break it down to four pieces. First is 200 billion, 2028, right? That should be a number that is familiar to everyone. The second is 500 million lodging management revenue for Kevin and his team. The third is a landing and a resolution on our China for China pivot, which is a process that is actively being undertaken and I'm sure all of you are following closely. And the fourth is the growth of our private assets platform. If you look at us today on our funds business,

we resemble something that is a penny-farting. Have you guys, I'm not sure if you're familiar with it, but it's an old-fashioned bicycle where one wheel is very large and one wheel is very small. You can ride it, but it's a little bit unstable. I think it describes our funds business today, right? We have a very large leading wheel in our listed funds business, where Asia-Pacific's largest wheat manager, and we're very proud of that. And we've done more in the last 12 months than anyone else in the wheat space. We have a relatively small funds business that we want to grow actively. And the North Star for us is that we turn the penny-farting into a racing bicycle, proper road bike, with two equal sized wheels, much more stability, much more speed, much more

agility, much more nimbleness. So that's our North Star. And the journey continues first half of 2025. Okay, let's turn to, as I mentioned, post-liberation, macro uncertainty, high. What have we done in capital deployment and formation? We've been very busy, very busy on execution. Capital formation, 2.6 billion in total equity raised year to day. So some of that came after first half end. That's a 1.3 x increase year to year. Capital deployment, putting that embedded FUM (Funds Under Management) to work, we deployed 3.2 billion year to day. We have deployed 3.2 billion by our funds and our

REITs. That's a 79% increase year and year. Much of this is in our principal themeatics, which we have shared with you. Secular trends that we believe, cycle resilient and allow us to invest for the longer term, delivering returns to investors. We see what we see, lodging, living, logistics, self storage, private credit. The SECP and Wingate were our two signature M&A pieces over the last six months. It's important to note that SECP were closed in March, Wingate closed in June. So any financial effects are going to be seen in the subsequent reporting periods. But over and above the financial effects, what's equally and fundamentally important

is that we get these businesses aligned, integrated and starting to work towards our North Star. And we'll share a little bit more about that later. And of course, discipline capital management has all real estate related companies, beneficiaries of, when REITs come down, appetite goes up. We'll show you that in a second. Okay, so a minute about our two recent acquisitions, as I'm sure you guys are very interested to see how we are doing. Important to remember the SECP is a 40% associate. So from an accounting standpoint, from an ability to work together, standpoint, formally, they are effectively still a separate company. They're running independently of us. But that's not to say that strategic collaborations, ideas, us meeting and sharing strategies

is not taking place on a very common basis, very frequently. So we meet with Souschard all the time, Souschard's an incredibly entrepreneurial ideas guy. And he constantly coming to us with new ideas, which we are co-creating with him, trying to figure out how best to make the two companies work together to extract the best of both companies. As we run effectively independently for the time being, where is Souschard's strong and Souschard's strong in hospitality, particularly in hospitality, in Japan hospitality. Where are we strong in? We are in strong and lodging around the world. And this is a very natural synergy for us to begin to start that strategic collaboration. I'll give you an idea that we are working on a bit later. Wing gates are a different proposition. Wing

gate, we just consummated it, closed it, 100% subsidiary. We can work absolutely together as one, and we are doing that right now. I believe that we are doing that at a perfect time, because as I will share with you, private credit to me, to us as an organization is primed for growth in Asia Pacific. So we've already got some of Wing Gate products in position to take to our capital partners in Asia Pacific. The initial interest has been very strong, and I am highly confident we will start to see the fruits of the Wing Gate combination very soon in second half. I'll take a few slides to walk you through where we are on our four verticals.

Starting with our listed platform. As I'm sure all of you who watch the market and report in the market know, core and core plast is back with a bang. What's the principle reason for this? I think it's interest rates. We are quite clearly past peak rates, and as peak rates come down, spreads to MPIE, start to make sense again, and allow investors to come in and look at core and core plast. As a result, we can see that our rates have been very busy in the last six months, able to raise capital and importantly able to deploy capital where we've seen total transaction values now not of 3 billion in the year to date period. So again, this is our crown jewel business. Let's think about the earnings. High quality recurring income, a petrol capital, and this is

to us again, that big wheel in our penny funding, one that we're very proud of and one that we are still looking to grow with the acquisition of 40% acquisition of JHR earlier this year and something very interesting growing in China, second half of the year. My foot funds, work in progress. Total equity raised, as I mentioned, up 29% year and year. So amidst a challenging capital raise environment, capital raise volumes are still down, especially for real estate strategies. We are punching at and above our weight, and are doing better than we were this time last year. So up 29%, we again are investing in the thematics we shared before are important to us

and secular to us for growth. Logging, living, logistics, self storage, private credit, you can see examples across the products that are successfully being able to deploy the capital that LP is are interesting with us. What's equally important is that the next 12 months has a healthy growth pipeline. We've got over 2 billion of targeted FUM (Funds Under Management) coming in across these strategies and thematics. We are highly confident we will close our Clara to Living Fund. We have an APAC credit fund that is substantially seated and is started soft launching. We have an APAC Living Fund that is in the works. This is the product we are working closely with Suchard and SC Capital Team

on to harness the strengths of both teams to see whether we can come out with a bang and really make a statement on the living space in Asia. In India we are capitalizing on this very strong wave of optimism, tailwinds in the logistics space as well as the DC space. We're confident in the next 12 months we should be able to put out product that caters do both of these very important trends. Now I want to take a minute to talk about private credit. We based on our house market research, the Asia-Pacific credit market overall credit market is somewhere around 63 trillion US dollars. 80% of that is held by the banks. That's an incredibly huge number. Now obviously not

all of the markets are accessible. We are including difficult to reach markets as well, but it's a massive number for Asia-Pacific. If we are able to convert just 1% of that bank channel to private that's about 500 billion in a market size for Asia-Pacific private credit. Today the private credit fund product as a whole is about 21 billion. And so from just that simple view of it, if you believe that there is room to grow the private credit space, we are in at a very early stage of a long secular growth cycle for Asia-Pacific. The same type of growth cycle that we saw in the US first and we are seeing in Europe now. We are already seeing markets in Asia that are leading in that

front. Australia is by far the one that comes to mind first, which is why we bought Wingate. Wingate falls in very nicely into that strategic roadmap. Other markets that are interesting, Korea obviously Singapore comes into play and India. Where are we on a product side? We have two products in credit. We have Asia-Pacific Credit Program 1 and Korea Credit Program 1. Both both have closed and both are winding down with returns that are comfortably above our target hurdles that we committed to our LPs. We are now in the process of working on KCP2 and ACP2. With the track record from the earlier predecessors, I think gives us an excellent chance of securing

reups from our existing LPs, but also raising the size, raising the mandate, becoming more discretionary in our nature and becoming more scalable, which is obviously the end goal for all of our private equity products. So credit is in a very interesting space for us. It's incredibly strategic. It will help us grow that wheel for Pura. It gives us a proper bicycle, Pura bicycle. And we've got a very special guest here that Chikun will introduce to you in not too distant future. So that's the private equity side of things. We are absolutely executing. We are not there yet. I think you all can see that. But we are highly confident. We are heading towards our North Star.

North Star is a 200 billion, both on the funds listed funds and the private funds side. If we continue capital raise effectively, we continue to manufacture good products, the LPs1, and we continue to deliver returns to underwriting, we will get there. Now back just across to our operating platforms, lodging again growth mode, 9,400 units above that signed across 43 properties, higher clip than same time last year. Openings are slightly lower, but Kevin says he's confident this is a second half phenomenon. It will catch up. An important rep power is staying relatively consistent. Lots of activity happening as our lodging management team marches towards its own North Star,

500 million revenue 2020. And on the commercial management side, urban and its team are doing what we set out to do, continuing to look after our customers well, and by looking after our customers well, we can manage our occupancy costs while driving positive rent reversion, which is the name of the game. At the same time, we are growing our third party contracts as a service. You can see that dotted box, that contribution is going up. You see that on the right hand side pie chart, and you also see better diversification across our three core markets of Singapore China, and now India is coming on very nicely as a consistent contributor as our BP, our logistics and suburban office platform begins to crystallize and attain

critical mass. And underpinning all of that is our digital platform cap star, which is very powerful, incredibly popular and growing nicely. I'll just end off with one other point I'd like to make to all of you, and that we also talked a little bit about better balance across capital employment. And I think this sums it up nicely. Total investments across all form of our core growth markets grew 60% to 1.3 billion year to date. So again, we said this to you. We wanted to get better balance at investor day across our core geographies. We're investing heavily into India. Those of you who have seen, we signed a highly strategic monumental MOU with the Maharash drug government for

over $2 billion to invest in that, which gives us nice seed platforms into the vehicles that I talked about. Career credit program is well underway. Australia, we've got windgate that will lead the way, lead the charge in our private credit growth. And in Japan, we have our strategic partnership with SE Capital. Alongside the second largest lodging rate that is already listed there. So there's a lot of activity going on in our core markets, which should again allow us to achieve that balance by 2020. Okay. So I'll pass it a point a bit. I don't want to sound overly rosy. There are a few headwinds. I just leave some of these headwinds with you. As we are executing, as I hope you can see,

we are seeing that uncertainty remains incredibly high. Right? Thanks to liberation day and a host of other factors. What is happening is that people are taking longer as a result to make decisions, investment decisions, M&A decisions, tendency decisions, all of these things are taking longer because people are nervous. Right? How do I sign a lease for the next three years when I don't know what's happening next week? How do I invest with this capital manager? If I have no idea what interest rates will be or whether this country will be a war, that country will have a tariff of two X, etc. These things confuse and obfuscate and make life difficult for decision makers. We empathize absolutely. Our data tells us that to raise a fund these days takes two years. So you are going to expect to

see choppiness from an accounting period to accounting period. If a fund closes a $2 billion, $5 billion fund in that first half, it's not because they work for three months and got that done across the line. It's because they work for 24 months and they've managed to get that across the line and that accounting period and reported that. So please bear with us. If you see choppiness in our results, it's not because we've lost our eye. We're not looking at the North Star. We're still very focused on the North Star, but these things take time and accounting periods are accounting periods. We're very confident second half. You will see the fruits of our labor for first half come through as we invest further and further for the 2028 goal. Second one of these is structural.

China continues to confound us in the market. We are doing everything we can to give to Xiang the time and the effort and the resources to work through this very uncertain period for China. But as I think all of you can see, it is taking longer to sort out their problems and again liberation day is not helping. So it is a issue for us. We know China plays a big part of our business. We are taking steps to balance and redress that. But at the meantime, it's still a large part of the business that requires a lot of our time and effort and resources, not least of Xiang and his team. So we'll do everything we can, but I think it's going to take a little

bit more time and effort. The hope that we'll get in resolution at the political level has not materialized. So there may be the sentiment driven issues that have affected our portfolios. If that sentiment lingers longer, it starts to calcify. And that's when we have other issues we have to address. For now, we're still working through that, making sure that we can do everything we can. We are punching above our weight. Our assets are doing well. Retail is the most resilient of our asset classes in China. And it's our largest by far, our largest portfolio in China. And again, I talked about an event coming up in September, which should allow us to shine the light

to say that for the right retail assets, for the right manager, for the right sponsor, there is capital that will deploy for real estate. And we have confident that come late September, we'll be able to deliver that to you. Make a strong statement for China for China. Okay, let me stop there and turn it over to Paul. Who will justify all of that with numbers? When Andrew says accounting periods are accounting periods, he makes it sound like something bad. I think on behalf of the entire finance team, we are offended by that statement. So let me just run through first half numbers. There were some adjustments, obviously, because of first half numbers. But it may not look as pretty as we would like as Andrew indicated.

But the truth is, there is actually a fair bit of strength in the underlying numbers, which is why I think we're a little bit less concerned about some of the financials from versus what you see for the headline numbers. So maybe let me start with operating pat me on the left side. So operating pat me down first half versus first half, down 12%. The reasons being, I think what most of you are expecting, we had a loss of contribution from divested assets, lower fund performance fees, absence of one of tags right back. But let me just go through this in a little bit more detail. So perhaps I started with the corporate and others, which was a plus 17 down to a negative eight for us. This was, we had a one-off tags right back last year due to previous restructuring, and right back up some of the provisions, which was an $18 million swing. So I would take that as a one-off. We don't really look at that

as part of our core operations. So the movement in the corporate side does not, it's not such a major factor for us. So really where we focus on is the two boxes, the real estate investment income and the fee income. So if you look at the real estate investment income, the 104 to 106, most of you know we divested five billion worth of assets last year. We divested ION Orchard, US multifamily, SUTO, I have, and we were expecting a dip in our real estate investment business. I have to say I think a lot of credit to a treasury team, to some of our investment teams, we were able to redeploy fast enough, India funds started to contribute more, interest savings started to contribute more. And we made up for what we thought was going to be an earnings gap in that real

estate investment business. That for us has turned out much better than we expected. Hopefully we can continue this into the second half. We still have a little bit ways that we want to grow. But I would say from the teams that have been working on improving either asset performance or some of the returns, they've made up for what we thought was going to be a gap. So on that front, I think we're actually pretty comfortable. And I can say we take full credit of that, obviously lower interest rate expectations help as well. Right? We've been able to work with some of the banks who are here as well. We've been able to cut some of our costs down on the interest side, which has helped buffer this up as well. So that's actually been a surprising string for us this first half, and we think we'll continue into the second half. The second part, and this was a little bit disappointing to us, was the fee business. So the fee business is showing that it is down 13 million.

The comfort that we take here is, as most of you know, we start that the first half pretty positive. As Andrew had mentioned, we thought we were going to see a number of transactions happen in the first half. And then when liberation day happened, everything was put on hold. Buying and selling was put on hold. And so we had a two to three month period where things were paused. But we think we are somewhat out of that. And you would have seen that from some of the transactions that are more public, at least have been announced. The Brits obviously, there is nine tie saying five signs per capita spring between those that is 1.7 billion worth of deals. 1.7 billion worth of deals, as you know, as a fund manager, that means 17 million worth of fees for us. So we know we can make up the transaction and performance fees in second half. I think what we

took the encouragement from is the fact that the recurring fee number is still up 5%. So even though we know the numbers look a little bit we, I think we're much more confident in the second half delivery on these different components. The portfolio gains in the middle, this is really a little bit more of just movement on balance sheet due to distribution and species, some of the private placements, not vastly dissimilar to last year first half. I think where the difference will come going forward is obviously last year we had the big divestment of ION Orchard. So this year we are still counting on a few more divestments from India, from China to make up some of where we would hope that portfolio gains comes from. But still confident that we will see a mark up in that space. So when we look at the overall, though it's down 13%, we simply don't expect that to continue in the second half just being able to

see the transactions and the pipeline. So a little bit more confident on the outlook going forward. On the operating pat me, so we stay in about the same range, about that 60% from the fee business, 40% from the real estate investment business. The goal is still to get this to 70% or higher than 70% from the fee business. The funny thing is as you look through some of our stats, sometimes I get questions, investors are worried, particularly I think this quarter, why did your revenues drop so much, why is your balance sheet dropped so much? This is positive for us. This means we're actually headed in the right direction. The deconciliation of class, obviously, is a 20 plus percent drop in revenue, but no difference in contribution to the bottom line for us. So this is us moving in the direction, right direction. And we would expect that over the ninks six months and 12 months after that, we would expect a greater shift towards even more so

on the fee business. Just very quick on the overall revenues. I'll talk through the fee income on the next slide a little bit more, but just to show you on the real estate investment revenues, as mentioned, that big drop for us is really the class, the deconciliation of capital and ascot trust without the deconciliation, the revenues are about flat, which is where we expect it to be. Okay, so the main part of our business, and this was the part that Andrew articulated so well, and I had to search what a penny-farthing was while he was speaking. That was the Google search, I think, for half the CLI team. If you don't know, Andrew is actually a fairly avid cyclist. I've tried to run him off the road a few times, but I have failed, which is why he's still here.

But he's quite right. The goal is to balance out these two listed and private funds for us. Now, listed is doing very well. As you can see, the recurring up, 8 million, the addition of JHR, Japan Hotel Rate from SC Capital is putting that to nice growth, and this is before the transaction fee is kick in. So we expect listed funds, thanks to the work of the team, William, Tony, all of our listed funds teams. The rates are doing well from both friends, right? They're seeing DPU increases, which is helping improve our NPI, but we also see transactions. So this part of the business, together with the new see-ritt listing, we're pretty comfortable, it's going to grow quite nicely. It's also got by far the best profit margins for us. Private funds management numbers are down because well one, as you all know, one is obviously the

performance fees. Last year, we had healthy performance fees from Korea, so that drop off didn't help us this year. The second component, you would also know last year we mentioned that for some of the China funds we had to give, fee reductions, and that impacted the numbers. Where the growth is going to come from is the numbers here only show one month of wingate contribution and slightly over three months of SC capital contribution. So just to give you an indication, as you can see, that four million that we highlight, about three million of that is from one month of wingate. So with the private credit piece, which Andrew mentioned, and we'll talk about a little bit more for the later on today, we do expect healthy growth from the M&A in this aspect. Because of that, I think we're very confident that private funds is clearly going to be positive in the second half

of the year, and we should outpace last year's revenue growth numbers, just based purely on the math. So I think on that side that would put private funds on a nice growth pace, hopefully scales up over time, so as Andrew mentioned, it would get a little bit more equal contribution from the two-ins. That's certainly the goal. Lodging management continues good steady growth. That's not quite have the same rev-pod tailwinds that we had from a few years back where rev-pod went up by 40% went up by 20%. But what the team is still doing nicely is we're still seeing good signings, good openings, which means that based on the pipeline, we know that growth will come quite naturally. Not at the speed, potentially that we would like, but that's why we always put pressure on Kevin on this. And then commercial management of this quarter, last few years, obviously we had some uplift.

This is going to be a little of an up and down, a nice steady income. But clearly, as we do more third-party signings and NPI improvements on properties, we'll see an uplift here as well. So overall, on the right-hand side, you can see on a total basis up 2%, re-clurring up 5%, we expect this will pick up pace in second half. On the real estate investment business, just to give you a sense of a little bit of a breakdown, obviously, that class contribution and revenues and EBITDA and then operating EBITDA. You can see where that drop-off is for operating EBITDA. If you look at it right at the bottom, on the right-hand side, you would see the balance sheet in investment. This component is going to continue to decline for us. And this is intentional. As we recycle assets, this will come down. The big drop, 19 million for us was largely ion-auchered

and some contribution from US multifamily as well. So we expect that portion to come down. Private funds, as some of our value-add funds have started to improve, we expect that contribution will naturally increase. Some of our investments in the private funds have not historically been contributing very much because they were development funds. But we're starting to see some of of that uplift. So that's positive for us. And then on the listed ritz, most of you follow them quite well. And so this is just our share of the earnings. This part will also likely come down somewhat because we are lowering our stakes in the ritz. So obviously, we've invested, sorry, we are sold versus last year this time. We sold 150 million of capital and ASCOT trusts. We did the distribution in species of CICT. So that's why the earnings have come down despite the fact that the ritz

themselves are actually doing slightly better. So this, as I mentioned, it may seem a little bit contrary, but this component coming down means we are actually headed in the right direction. This is our expectation going forward. So what's going to happen to that money? So we are recycling some of that investments. So balance sheet movement, not as much this first quarter, truth be told, the number movements were so small that initially when finance and I discussed we thought they were rounding ritz. But it was because it was a very slow fast half for us. It certainly did not meet expectations for us on where we thought it would be. But we expect in the second half that those transactions that would have happened in first half should happen in the second half. So we expect balance sheet divestments to continue. We expect that 4.3 to come down

further, allowing us more capital for potential reinvestment into new areas. Private funds, on the other hand, will increase. We will be investing more. We're becoming more capital efficient. We take smaller stakes in our funds. In the new funds, we suddenly have smaller stakes and we do in the old funds. So we get better capital efficiency. But this number, we expect will increase as we reinvest into a number of the new funds that are launching. And then finally, on the listed funds, as mentioned, this is still part of our intent to reduce our stakes. To be fair, some of the stake reduction is not coming necessarily from a divestment. Most of you were no CICT. We're not in raised 600 million just recently. So from a CLI perspective, as we didn't participate in the placement, we will naturally dilute down. So in some cases,

we expect some funds back. In some cases, we just expect improved capital efficiency. So we're going to continue on this path. This should continue to trend downward overall. And we expect that this will get reinvested into a lot of growth opportunities for us. Which is exactly why when we talk about our debt headroom, we believe from where our gearing is right now at point four six. We believe we've got three to six billion that we can spend on M&A opportunities, on organic growth, on seating new funds, on warehousing, some of which Andrew mentioned earlier. For instance, we are warehousing credit assets. We are warehousing, lodging assets. So some of this is meant to cycle and fund into growth. This is what we are using the debt headroom for. Maybe the only other thing to highlight on this slide is interest cost has

come down for us. So from 4.4 down to 4.0, if this seems higher than most of you would expect, that is partly because we do borrow in Ozzy dollars. We borrow in US dollars for a lot of our other investments. But we expect this 4% to trend downward for us as well. Hopefully as rate cuts do kick in. If the US does go ahead in September with a cut, obviously that also helps us on the Singapore side and across the borrowing. Australia also just cut just this past week. So we do expect borrowing costs were slide for us as well. So that is something that we think not just helps us on the interest rate savings. But also as most of you know, this means we'll see more deals moving as there's a little bit more positivity in the market. So that's it on our financials. Just the last

closing slide. A lot of what Andrew mentioned. This is where we're really focused on going ahead. We are building large, thematic funds, living, lodging, logistics, self-storage credit. These areas that we are very much focused on, our domestic renmin p business, somewhat more standalone. But the idea is as it goes to scale, similar to the 1B master fund that we did, the Singh 1B master fund that we did earlier this year, these give us better economics. So we get better margins, which is why we're focused on this. Seerit listing should happen by fourth quarter, also be incremental to us in terms of fee earnings. M&A, we are continuing to look for more bolt-on opportunities, things to build a business area where we can redeploy some of the capital

that we're getting back. But also very conscious that we're trying very hard to make sure that we can capture the full synergies out of our Wingate and SE capital, having just completed those acquisitions. And then the last thing is just on the portfolio, obviously interest savings, a big plus for us second half of this year, balance sheet recycling, hopefully some portfolio gains from that as well, particularly out of markets like India. And then we are still conscious and making efforts towards our cost savings targets, improving organizational efficiency overall. So these are sort of key focus areas for us for the second half and things that we expect will be able to show up in the mix accounting period, even if it didn't show up in this one. Thank you. I'll pass the time for Q&A. Q&A. Thank you Paul. I will invite Chikun Paul, would you stay in front and Andrew? And today

we will also have Kevin Go, our CEO of lodging, as well as Ervin Yo, our chief strategy officer and CEO of commercial management, rising KOL in the property sector, if you follow his Lincoln, join us for Q&A. Chikun, would you like to share some reflections? Paul. See, hence, up so fast. Wait, do you see me? I try to keep this shot. Paul and Andrew have done such a great job in the presentation. So I am increasingly trying to work myself out doing presentation. Thank you, Paul. Thank you, Andrew. So maybe just to re-emphasize a few points on the China. The pace of recycling has not been as fast as we would like in terms of reducing our

balance sheet exposure, but with the formation of the China wheat and setting up of the rimming-p master fund with the insurance company, you should see increased activities happening. Sometimes things take a bit longer because of the approval processes that needs to take place in China, which are beyond our control. So that is the context, but things should happen. But also given the fact that because we have long-tracked current reputation in China, we are actually getting a lot of inquiries from domestic capital to actually give us capital to look at more asset management growth.

So the challenge is also on the China team to be able to build up new capabilities. Again, we can actually raise more domestic capital in China. It's just that we believe fundamentally we want to be able to build out the teams find good deals. And it's on the basis that we can find good deals, under-right good deals, then we take the capital. I mean, it's just the backdrop for the Chinese economy. It's a bit sometimes not so clear for us to under-write the outlook. That's why we are a bit more careful in the amount of capital that we are prepared to take. So again, it is the fundamental basis of making sure that we want to be very

focused on delivering high quality, consistent earnings for our MPs and our investors. And we raise funds on their basis. So that's on China. Growth, I think Andrew has captured a lot. The REIT's business is doing well, good engine because we have invested in the business since early 2000. I mean, when Claire first started for those of you who follow capital and very closely, you know, remember it was a CCT, it was CMT, then there was a S-C-T-R-S when I was running the S-C-B business, market cap was small, asset base was small. It took us time to build it up to where it is. We managed to put the CCT and CMT together at the point in time it was probably controversial because

it was done in the just during COVID time. But if you look back on some of the strategic moves that we have done, putting CCT, CMT to become CICT. I mean, today you look at, I mean, the market speaks for itself. You look at the Sanders REITs that came along because of the merger with Sanders Singbridge and how we also because of a Sanders Singbridge managed to put the Escher Hospitality Trust and a Sanders Hospitality Trust to become a much bigger vehicle. And once you have the size, you will be able to trade with a much lower cost of capital and be able to do a lot more use and can compete more effective against many other vehicles. I mean, that was the very single-minded objective that we wanted to do.

and it takes time. I mean it took us years to get us to where it is today and that's why I think that there's a lot more things that we can do on the listed space to create new listings in other jurisdictions or to create new products and Singapore as well and that's something that we will focus on getting that shoe. And of course the growth apart from on the private Fansa you know building up teams on the ground there are different kinds of news that you are hearing about you know we are doing this deal we are doing that deals I'm sure some of you may ask me but I think you know to being at investment manager we will constantly be looking out for these some of you

may hear in the market some of you may want me to comment but we're not going to comment on any specific deals but as an investment manager if we think that they are good deals structuring good deals able to structure good deals and can bring in capital and we can make good money for investors naturally we won't look at it. So if you ask me on any specific comments on anything that you hear in the news I am unable to comment but I just want to tell you that this job to constantly be looking and structuring the end that happens because you really have deep boots on the ground and true the you know when we started to restructure the business you know building up relationship the different capital partners you know become more confident on the capital

that will come together with us on some of the deals that we are doing and that will be the kind of basis in how we look at use. Of course you know M&A aside apart from M&A apart from SE capital we will continue to look at good deals but just again I like to remind the audience is when we look at M&A it's not just M&A just to buck up on our AUM we must find high quality deals that you know if you buy a 2 billion platform can be greater to 10 billion can be greater to 15 billion this is really the consideration when we look at M&A. Okay and at the end of it all it's really about the people we have been spending time curating the team recruiting people the team is a lot more international

coming from people with strong private equity background because if you can't find good people with good the right value system we will not be able to do good use and be able to make sure that we invest well on behalf of the investors and there's a lot of core investment that takes place because we personally have to put in money to make sure that you know we are all aligned with the investors. I would also want to take the chance to introduce Kishor I mean we came out to use Kishor you Kishor is joining us he's going to help us to he's going to be the CEO for alternative going to drive help us to drive in terms of the credit business and I think useful for him to just spend a few minutes just to introduce himself and maybe explain why he just to join us here.

Thanks Kishor and good morning everyone thanks for the thanks for the welcome. So my name is Kishor Marjani I've been in the I guess private markets or private funds industry for about 30 years. In most industries that would make you a dinosaur fortunately this is one where it gives you more pattern recognition because your LLM resides in your brain for the most part. I spent the last 15 years at Blackstone lived in Singapore for about 20 years now. At Blackstone I ran a business called tactical opportunities so that invested quite extensively in insurance and credit in particular in Australian credit business called Lattrope financial which we took from a small family on mortgage lender to today I think Asia's largest private credit manager at about 20 billion

Aussie dollars of a U.M. I've been in Singapore as I said for 20 years so from afar I've I've always looked at CLI as a brand that I think is pristine as a business that is I've always viewed as a as a brand with that that's sort of a generator of safe returns with good discipline. Chiku and I've known for many years and I've got to know much of the team over the last little while. I'm really excited to come in and work with this team to sort of expand into a Jason C's beyond sort of the direct real estate place where clearly CLI has an incredible position of strength but take that in a bold but very discipline manner right so I clearly see there are areas where this brand with

its balance sheet has the ability has a clear right to play and an ability to win right so we're gonna approach it from that standpoint take the experience of this team complimented with people who understand the verticals that we're going into and look to capture capture that so I'm looking I'm really excited about about coming on board and working with Chiku and Paul Andrew and the rest of the team thank you. Thank you. Sean with that we will start our Q&A Marvin from JPM is not around because he hurt his lake and somebody's here to put up the hands for him. Terrence please. Thank you so much thank you for the opportunity Grace thank you Chiku and Andrew and Paul Terrence from JPMorgan.

I just had two questions first on acquisitions I wanted to ask a little bit about how you're seeing acquisitions of other platforms understand that you have that six billion that you could potentially be apply. Are you looking more at ball on acquisitions or something a little bit more sizeable and in terms of timing you mentioned that it rates are falling so how do you see multiples now is this the right time to get in or is there a risk that you know if you were to delay for the multiples could could could rise. Number second question on the us on divestments perhaps could you touch a little bit more on some of the plans for second half in particular the China

China divestments the seaweed and also the master fan and potentially India India data centers I think that's that's quite interesting thank you. On the M&A side we have been looking I mean we Janine probably looks at like a hundred views obviously we say no to most views because for the current situation many of the GP with big exposure to private markets actually many of them have difficulties raising capital so we definitely will look for capabilities whether to give us new sector expertise or market that can help to strengthen

our market positioning. I mean we can get the reason why we looked at we can get was because we wanted to go into private credit we just think that it's gonna take a long time to just build up a team and do the business so it's much faster to at least buy platform that we are familiar with the people that we know and use it to double-charge the growth and through that and it's happening and we'll be looking at more private credit platforms or adjacencies definitely. Asia-Pad is an area that I think is still unrelatively undeveloped and there are agent adjacencies to the private credit business that can help to both on I think those are interesting things that we will look in the real estate site if there are things that we can do in terms of

platforms say on that for that help us to deepen our capabilities on logistics, student accommodation or even data centers we will look at it so and potentially even new adjacency. If you take a step back if you want to view a asset management business we have real estate now we are building up private credit real estate from an asset management perspective it's very dependent on interest rates when the interest rate goes up fundraising becomes very very challenging. I mean there are advantage that we have is because we have the stable of REITs that gives a lot of flexibility for us to be able to recycle

assets for many of the funds that we have seen it is may not be the only exit but it's at least we offer options to many of the funds that we have created. Of course if you can sell better pricing to the party we should do that because we need to deliver best returns but in the end if we need to find liquidity at least we have the REITs that we can format on which I think is a good advantage. So real estate private credit the one that we are thinking deeper is whether we want to look into an adjacency in the real asset space I mean we are already in data centers whether we want to go into broader infrastructure space so that you know we view asset management company that has three vertical still very much asset base real estate infrastructure and then even the private

credit you want to do it on the asset base type of private credit opportunity that's how we are thinking about it but at this point time is only real estate and private credit infrastructure it's still data center and it's an area that we are reviewing and seeing whether it's a meaningful way for us to look at this I mean it's gonna take a long time to build from scratch so if you're gonna go into this it has to be a meaningful type of platform. I can take the other question on divestments so you know as mentioned so one of the areas we're looking at obviously is India it's most of you know and we've been public and so has capital and India trust we are looking at raising and India data center fund that is probably targeted we think for the tail end of the year our more immediate focus is we actually have two India logistics

funds and these are legacy funds for us where we own 50% of the funds so when we talk about our contribution to the private funds business this is part of that so the funds have both funds have done well at the point of near exit so the intent for us is we are planning to exit these two funds and set up a call logistics India fund and another value at fun that will allow us to reduce our stakes get some of our capital back and also get performance fees so the hope is to do at least one of those transitions in the second half of this year so with that we are hopeful that we may also see some uplift in terms of gains so that's the hard push for us on the India front on the China side as you all know it's still a very challenging tough environment for China fortunately with the seat rate listing and the master fund these

gives us avenues for capital recycling so them for the master fund as she can just mention we want to make sure we do what's best for the investors as well which means not just capital and assets but also potentially third party assets so it should be a nice blend of assets in the fun but that said we do think there are one or two assets on balance sheet for us which are viable candidates to go into this fund so I would say in the second half of the year between the various initiatives we are hoping to divest more than half a billion worth of China assets for these we may not quite see the same uplift as we would expect from India we expect some will be positive some will be negative depending on the assets themselves if you talk to the seller

everybody wants a high-maudible so the guidance from our perspective I think we need to pay a fair multiple for platform the key for us is how can we work with a platform to generate the growth to be able to justify the multiple that we pay so if a platform that is very good is shiny and doing well and we believe we can add value I think it's not fair to expect at this count I mean if you buy platforms at a deep discount I think you may be buying into trouble because you are it's a be purposeness so I just want to leave it as that and every deal is different but if the numbers is something that we don't

think we can justify paying and we won't be able to deliver the returns for investors then we will walk away from from the deal that's the discipline that we look at in terms of platform acquisitions just to end my thing the platforms that interest us these days are ones that are sectors that are operationally intensive because in this environment our view is that in order to deliver alpha to your investors you need to be able to work the assets harder than someone else and if you've got a platform that has the expertise the track record to do that you're in good shape to deliver alpha and your capital partners tend to agree with that view if you're just relying on interest reductions smart engineering smart financial engineering I think those

days are there's much much a much harder investment case to prove because as I mentioned earlier capital partners are being much more considered they are taking a longer time to clear their investment committees and all of these questions are being asked so if you have an extra space is sure if you have a ask that you if you have capital and malls that you can show your capital partners that we know the asset better than anyone else we can operate this we can sweat it we can deliver the returns that we're underwriting and that I think is a very powerful proposition to take to capital partners so if you look at the thematics we are investing into right logistics living solutions credit I mean DC so those would be naturally where we would want to

welcome because I think it makes a very interesting strategic narrative and helps us get that peer-up business up and running we'll have the next question from Brandon hi morning frequency just two questions the first one would be I think we have recently seen quite a bit of buoyancy and Singapore's equity markets so are there anything within your stable that you you think that is is right for listing that something like as good or even something like your self storage venture which is started about three years ago so that's my first question the second question would be did you give us a bit more color on the growth trajectory of credit like I think when you hit 200 billion like how big

proportion would credit contribute and and what kind of numbers you're looking for the IRRs and and also the frequency of event fees I mean ultimately I mean this is there's something you you see extremely passionate about so I just want to find out where where we can put in our model for this business on the listing and Singapore I think they're interesting opportunities but to do any listing my own view is unless it's of a significant size there's no point in doing a sub-scale type of listing after that you know to grow their platform to raise capital it's just you're just not as competitive so especially at the point in time where we are not short of capital I don't think it's a

something that we'll put at the top of our mind what we want to do is to double-charge the growth we look at as good business it is a very unique platform in the lodging space it is one of its kind I mean it's not I mean there are many other hospitality platforms but this one is really in the standard corporate state where the operating margins are a lot higher because you just have much fewer people working at the properties and screwing quite nicely out of 170 or 180,000 keys that Kevin has built up only 60% it's operational so there's a lot of fee uplift as the properties becomes operational and the team is

continue to invest on growth we want to continue to invest in the platform to drive up the revenue and we want to position it at a point in time where we can have capital market solution and should it be as and when it is ready and the question is whether you should be listed in Singapore I mean whether you should be listed in which jurisdiction will be depend on what we think will give it the right cost of capital for it to be most competitive if Singapore offers that then naturally we want to consider that for Singapore because we have I mean we have to make sure that every vehicle that we set up is set it up for for growth so that would be my my response to you I mean I probably said that

we were not discount the possibility that we may take that powerful as good one day but it's actually growing where I mean the fee income for the management contract the fee income is locked in for 20 to sometimes 40 years it's the fees but better than loans you know if the banks give the loans as three five years and you go to find new loans is 20 years and generally the owners will extend the management contract because they are just so used to the property and especially they've been doing well yeah Kevin you have anything to add on yeah may just take your other question Brandon so on the private credit space it's a little bit harder now to set a really high target because key show is already

sitting here if he wasn't here we would set a very high target but you know for it given right now we are about 117 billion funds on a management private credit is only about three billion for us I think for it to be a material contributor to the group it's going to have to be at least 30% of our private funds or 10 to 15% of the overall so ideally we would love to see this get at least to a 20 30 billion dollar contribution the returns on that for our existing funds so our first Australian credit program one fund is going to come back at about a net 14 and a half percent return that's a little bit higher so it clearly beats hurdle but you know we'd be targeting more of a sort of a 10 to 12 on average if we were to get more insurance capital in we may lower that hurdle just matching together so from a balance sheet viewpoint we expect

will be small stakes in the similar you know 10% type stakes but you know getting to sort of a 10% return sort of a fair estimation for you know related you should you want to add anything to that Marvin JPM has also sent in a related question what is the typical fee as a percentage of FUM (Funds Under Management) for credit funds and how does the base and performance fees compare against the allies existing private funds you have anything else to add so generally for our credit funds generally we are one to one and a half percent of equity on a typical fee charge right now base and performance varies similar to our real estate funds for our core funds obviously there is

more geared towards base and less towards performance so similar for the credit it varies by fan time next question Hello John. Hi. Hi this Terrence from UBS just quoting Kishor say free terms with good discipline I guess the 2024 dividend was attractive but I think we start to see its effects this half way and any V fell 7% I think carrying also moved up 0.39 to 0.46 so how do we convince investors that this on balance is a net positive move so there are two components to our drop so any V drop from 2.7 to $2.72 to a

252 over the first half there were two factors to that one was actually relating to FCTR so as you know Indian rupee Remind me US dollar all depreciated against Singdola for us so unfortunately for us with the exception of US we're pretty much fully hedged for the others we did take a little fair bit of movement we have a fair bit of Remind me exposure there hopefully we are you know getting to the bottom at least on that exchange rate but unfortunately we fell still fell residual effects of that if you were to strip out the residual effects of FCTR generally on an overall annual year we've been earning 6 to 700 million in profits which is about the same as where dividend cash distributions have been for us so I

would say the NAV movement this time round was more than we expected or more than we would have liked but part of that was due to the FCTR component the other was the distribution in species of CICT which was about 300 million I wouldn't say we will always do a distribution in species of units as I mentioned we also sold 150 million of class shares end of last year so we will sort of inter mix between the two part of that is to get the cash back to redeploying to other proceeds a part of it is we do look at that return in NAV as actually just rewarding shareholders as well and the second question is do we need to be five I think there's been quite a bit of recycling up the Singapore book into CICT and Claire so the question is how is CLI keeping up

Singapore pipeline or is it fair to say that the S reads will have to start looking more and more offshore from here I think there are still third-party opportunities for CLC for the reads that we have in Singapore I will say that there are few opportunity there are third-party assets CRI together with CLD we will continue to look at opportunities together we can always set up development fund together with CLD colleagues to pursue opportunities and the revenue of growth would be in terms of the potential reach of innovation or redevelopment of assets within our portfolio some of them are

quite data by sitting on top of excellent transportation notes I think there is a lot of upside and the question is whether the reads we want to do all by themselves which may affect their GPU or work together with other capital partners and so that it doesn't affect that you so all these are things that we will in very close partnership with our reads team to make sure that you know there's again we want to pursue proper high quality growth we've respect to whether each of the reads are looking for overseas I think that depends on the mandate I mean I don't want to speak on behalf of the viewers read CEO Claire has his own mandate so if there are good opportunities in the

markets that they have really decided to go they will continue to do that CICT is largely Singapore we have some small presence in Australia and Germany at this point in time I can just add to that I think part of this is the change in business model for us we we don't look at our reads as recycling vehicles anymore right there meant to really optimize and be fund management vehicles which means that it's no longer relying on deals from the sponsor whether it's us or capital land development and I think if you look at the number of reads I I would say send us read with William and Serena on capital and escutras they've shown the ability to do a creative good deals with the parties our expectation going forward is that is the model that we expect from them anything that the sponsor can do to help we would certainly like to do but we think that the

management we team teams we have in the reads are of a international high enough standard that they can run very well on their own so that would be the expectation for growth going forward. Here we have the next question from VJ yeah hi morning thanks for the presentation I just have two questions my first question is in terms of a FRE (Fee-Related Earnings) to a few if you related earnings is there a pressure or squeeze in terms of FRE (Fee-Related Earnings) to a few especially on the private site considering that this segment has been quite growing strongly and there is a lot of competition in this space I notice this has come down about 6 to 4 basis point this last half of the year my second question is what are your thoughts in terms of Hong Kong market especially on equity side or a private credit

side with more distastor opportunities emerging over there thank you thanks VJ I'll take the first one and I'll leave for the talk about Hong Kong the first one is yes there will always be fee pressure yes it's a highly competitive environment but then goes back to what are you what is your value proposition to your LP right if I can show you something that is backed by a first-in-class operating platform that is backed by strong management team backed by a GP that is supportive full credibility full integrity all of these things I think are worth something in today's environment where uncertainty is high you don't know where the next crisis is coming from you don't know you're not sure if you

can trust your your partners etc etc who may have the best of intentions but may be swayed by other things that happen right so I think for us we know what we can bring to our capital partners we can bring a pedigree that I think is very difficult to match you can argue about whether being semi-state own is good or bad we think is very good we think it brings us a very strong ability to stand total toe with other GPs out there to say we will be here regardless of what happens and we've got excellent funding costability we've got excellent capital costability because of that and if we've got the right operating platforms that underpin the right strategies in the wing lodging

logistics private credit EC's then that gives us the ability to hold fees and say you this is you're getting a bargain for all of these things that we bring to the table so that's that's the way we're gonna do it just specifically if you're asking about this first half fees just as Andrew mentioned I mean there is a little bit of fee pressure but what reflects in this accounting period numbers is there's a lack of transactions for first half so fund management fees that's partly the drop in three basis points the other change I you know apologize I should have highlighted the reason it drops from 85 to 79 on the overall is because for SC capital and for wingate we don't do property management or lodging management so in the all-in fee number that usually

reflects as we start doing more third party and broader fund management that number is going to move down so we think in the longer around the focus for us is the fund management one and that 45 should move up as the transactions come through on your other question on Hong Kong it's a good indirect question as she couldn't mention we are not commenting on specific deals that are in the market I do think we are in the look of opportunities we believe that we're in turning points in certain markets whether it's due to interest rates or whether the economy or so we are keeping an eye open for opportunities and assessing what we see don't know don't know from a B of a couple of questions for me first on maybe not a Hong Kong question but Andrew you mentioned earlier

that you think core is back right and so in your acquisition and many plans you have all sectors but what about meet the traditional real-estate like retail and office within a region is this something that is starting to be a bit more exciting for you guys that's the first question my second question is also I'm not I'm not pointing to you but relating to what you said earlier that something interesting is coming out in China sometimes that second half could elaborate on that and I guess my question also is on the divestment in China you has been taking a few years so at the board level is there a timeline where you need to right-size your China exposure and if there is a time that you see

enough enough we're gonna dive as ever price or is there a pricing thing or is the demand thing could elaborate on that things very quickly the surprise event was a serious thing sorry there's only one surprise okay so to call the answer yes there is we saw the early shoots of this last year but there wasn't enough momentum this year it has turned because many jurisdictions when clearly demonstrated there were past peak rates and started to cut and then look this wall of core money which has in mail cases has to deploy pension funds insurance companies they start to get look at what core products are

interesting to them and for countries where office or slash retail are investable for the right types of assets right locations it absolutely is in play so two good examples thing appropriately for multi-till or reasons when our commercial business remains on a very strong stable footing and Australia Australia we have started to see capital flows come in Andrew and Rahul on the ground starting to see strong interest in the right types of retail so products are being formed funds are being formed funds are being launched retail funds are being launched and we can see that coming as well so for the right type of product right time investor we will we want to take advantage of this being on the ground in Australia

office a little bit more difficult to pierce because office I think that the issues structural so you got to figure out whether your market does have too much office supply for the structural change that has occurred right it worked from home and if you still have too much supply then you you have to be careful about pricing so retail nothing got built in the last four years five is largely in Asia and so there's that supply glut has passed it's been absorbed and now the demand is back because retail is called because the nice steady resilient return for the right types of assets would it would be more owner operator kind of model they're looking at or through the funds management both I mean obviously we can't be operator everywhere but in our core markets where

event is active and is looking to grow into we would certainly look to expand our footprint that third party contract can potentially turn into asset ownership as well but for market like Australia say for example where your incumbents are incredibly strong unlikely that we were trying but hits with them right we go down the fund management model first since we're on this topic urban do you have any reflections on the operational end yeah to that so in markets they were active in Singapore Malaysia a China we are still looking and there may be something coming up in in Johor but interested that the past four years a lot of this is in Asia the new shopping malls and so true in Malaysia it's quite a lot retail coming up there so we are looking at the different models of asset light management where we can bring our

our network of tenants and our operating abilities there we are certainly strong in KL in pineng and in quarantine we are looking for space in Johor so watch this space there should be something coming up soon Don't always have a question on the divestment timeline yeah China divestment yes we are as impatient I think as the market is on this one we certainly like would like to see them move faster I think over the last few years certainly it's been more challenging than we had hoped and you know it's the sean fortunately as our CEO then he's got to be the strongest perseverance I've ever seen of anyone in following these things through we do expect to make headway in the second half concretely on a couple of assets which I think will help we would love to see more progress part of putting the master fun and the

series in places to allow a pipeline for us to exit so it will not happen necessarily at the speed that we had hoped certainly as a management team we'd hope to go faster but we hope that we get some concrete progress in the next few months any more questions we do have one from Derry who's viewing online Derek DBS can you share what is the expected or target premium to vote from the divestment for second half is an AVL level that is achievable yes Derry you only get questions answered when you show up in person I'm afraid I'm just kidding yes certainly we expect an overall it depends very much my market certainly for India we're expecting a premium to vote for China it'll be a little bit of a mix some assets above some below we hope that overall we will be a net positive from an

any of you perspective another question from Terrence like is coming thanks just asking this on behalf of a client basically a client was mentioning that chapter ice is down this morning slight disappointment that there wasn't any special dividend or interim dividend so what do you think about dividends towards the end of the year and also buybacks to the extent that buyback went themselves slow thanks so on the interim dividend well we we don't do interim dividends at

some point I think as we complete our transition and we are stabilized in terms of earnings and all that we may actually relook our policy on this but as of right now we do dividends once a year if you look at first half earnings I think clearly what we expect second half to be better I think it's hard for us to promise a very significant increase in dividends quite clearly but we do think our core dividend and we have reiterated this multiple all times our core dividend of 12 cents we think it's something that is very consistent for us and something that is achievable from a cash flow perspective even this quarter of us half cash flow was a 311 million operating cash flow that ties in quite sufficiently nicely with 12 cents dividend so if second half improves

we'll have a little bit of leeway there in terms of share buybacks yes we understand momentum is slowed I would say collectively as a board and management we've come to the decision to really focus on growth and investing be at high and am in a both organic and in organic growth and so share buybacks for us will not be a priority we would still keep it as a tool in the arsenal for something that we would do together with dividends but the focus we think that there are opportunities in the market for us to invest behind and that's what we're going to focus on there is a question back all right morning Dexter from Bloomberg here sorry can I just have a few points first Paul you said was it half a billion in Chinese investments on both this year is that correct

is that it I said we hope to achieve more than half a billion in investments for China yes uh okay can't check first one point uh you guys previously published your real estate U.M. I'm just wondering why is it no longer published in part of your results yeah I feel more Matt so it's quite simple quite honestly on that one we used to for those of you on uh less aware we used to have real estate a U.M. and we used to have funds on the management we realized it was quite confusing to the market because of the number of times we took queries on what's the difference between the two so given that we are trying to be a focused really on our funds management business that's why we cover that number what real estate a U.M. used to include was actually a lot of the assets we managed under the lodging side of the platform and so that was included

but going forward you know our focus is really growing on the funds under management to the 200 billion and that's why we just show that number okay so do you have a number for a currency still 130 was the N FY number so we don't track it on a quarterly basis any okay I see then can I check on the on-change investments you said the number would that mostly go into that master fund that you're set up then or is it more in terms of general to our to top parties and stuff like that so you know at the start of the year we talked about our plan for capital recycling more broadly as a group and the intent at the start of the year was to try and get closer to the one billion number between 0.5 to 1 billion in terms of China diversments in diversments in other markets as well so it's not just China we're divesting in India obviously we've got assets still in Singapore some in Europe we are

trying to become more asset-like so for us this divestment is across multiple geographies specifically on the China assets I think it'll be a mix you know we we expect there is obviously there's the Syria there's the master fund there are third party buyers there's potential single asset funds so I think we are we are looking at a broad range of opportunities there okay and that's last one from me obviously you guys are doing try to do a little more in other areas peri-corner stuff like that there was a time where obviously your pack the appears like developers so what kind of peers should we benchmark the market benchmark you guys against nowadays like oh what your thing is a fair convention market you right now it's a very good question you know in Singapore there is really only two pools right there's roots and developers and we always constantly feel that we

should not be in the developer bucket I'm looking at a handful of analysts who still bucket us as developers you know we we think we should or we aspire to is we are looking at global and regional peers who are really fund managers so we think of charter hall we think of Goodman we used to think of ESR obviously that has changed a little bit we look at Blackstone we look at Brookfield and we think of these as more comparable to us given where our business model is evolving too okay I have a question from Tanxian Goldman Sachs viewing us online are we call management had discussed expansion into us and possibly through platform acquisition given recent outflow of funds from the US what is the latest view on this we I mean I we look I mean US is a big and deep market I don't think that

if you want to be in the asset management space we can ignore us as a market of course given all the recent news things I mean our flow of funds and that's true since that we have not done anything but that doesn't mean we should not continue to evaluate if there are good platforms and we think that can help to the bull charge at the pricing that we like I think we will continue to look at it so that would be I mean at the end of the day is the team that you can find is in a sector that we want and can they help to the bull charge or fund management business before I take the last question from Brendan there's one person who hasn't spoken and I would like to invite Kevin maybe you can

provide us with some sound bites on how lodging management is doing we have some news on Rajo synergy panel yeah maybe just a couple of key takeaways I think Chikun earlier mentioned about us you know starting a corporate base high margins that part was still preserving and I think a lot investors like us for that especially you know the recent exits that we have in the service department space it gives a very good return but as a fee owner in the lodging management area we are actually moving into new areas right you have seen I think two days ago we have a article to say that we are going to results it doesn't mean that we're buying results but we're actually managing results and you know the fee that can come from managing a result it's really a lot more

than if you would just manage a singular service department in the city so from that perspective we're actually widening our addressable market just from the traditional service department so who tells us to resource our brands are now multi typologies and that I mean that you know as good brand can be in the city but as good brand can also be in the ski resort a seaside resort amount in resort because those guys are the same people that stay with us you go to the seaside you go to city resorts you get the same brand signature the brand experiences and we do that with all other brands like live city in Somerset so the recent signings that we have we'll get villas in Bali in Bambi we are getting naturang in Vietnam Vietnam has got beautiful coastal resorts it

goes as a elongated shape country with a lot of coastlines we're gonna get a couple hundred units there to manage so it's gonna be quite an exciting journey to for us we're gonna double charge growth by looking at multi typologies we're looking at new addressable markets right so I mean to a little question on listing you know it's chicken's decision because we are kind of like a subsidiary to CLI but I do feel that there's a lot of growth to be delivered in the next few years and I think over the next two three years you will see a lot more new openings a lot more new properties from all the escort brands 14 of them and you will see us going into a lot more

exciting locations there all our lot of team members which by the way grew in by leaps and bounds from zero into in nineteen to close about seven million now and we're gonna see it growing to 15 20 25 right so I think I am very optimistic that there's a pathway to a very nice growth path for the logic management distance Brendan you have a question yeah just a one one question I noted from the press release that I think your chairman is quite confident that CIO is gonna hit the 200 billion a few a few so I'm just keen to find out whether is that a hot target and I think with what's going on

globally right now who got us and what is that implied K-Grow they are looking for within both the private side of this site to get to that 200 billion number or do you think we can we could see like a mega platform acquisition if 200 billion target gets harder to achieve I mean we indicated 200 billion as a way to guide the team as a management business is a scale business right you need to build scale you need to build a U.M. so that you know LPs will essentially generally be attracted to GPs with scale and scale provide a lot of costs in the

Gs and for you to do a lot more more things so yes we set a target of 200 billion if it's just using just real estate as a vertical I think it would be potentially challenging but now that we have a private credit and potentially another vertical in the infrastructure I do think that we should be able to get there but I want to say again on organically you know non-private credit on on our businesses getting to 150 160 I think that should be doable will we rush to do an M&A just to for future 2020 28 target if we cannot find good use

I rather come here and tell you that I can achieve it because I can't find good use rather than to just buy any AUM and in the end I feel to deliver the returns for shareholders so yes it's an aspiration given what we want to do but I want to give the assurance we are not here just to buy AUM to achieve headline numbers it's about high quality platforms that can help to deliver long-term earnings so that we can pay good quality dividends for our investors yeah so that's how I would look at it and 200 billion of course it's something that we are very focused to want to do but if I can't do it because I can't find good enough platform I will come and explain we will need to wrap up soon but we have a question from Gola and one last question from

Drey and then we will wrap up. Good luck please. Yes hi thanks for taking my question you know in your China portfolio you have some business parts from the it from the Asender Singbridge side would you ever think about looking at a second CV because I know it took a long time to get to this first one but shouldn't the second one be faster and would you be able talk a little bit about that but would you look for if you did that and the second question also with North Asia Hong Kong what what would you want what would drive you to buy something in Hong Kong a platform or whatever it is in terms of well yeah Hong Kong

it's a interesting time going through an interesting time my own view is I mean okay maybe we look at China as a whole I think China the real estate sector is going through I mean difficult few years and I think we'll take a few more years to truly recover but if you look at Chinese as a China economy one over billion it's actually a lot more advanced than many of the other emerging market where you recover I think it will it just gonna take time you're just gonna take time and my fundamental view is that Hong Kong's real estate sector will come back once the Chinese economy strengthens again so that's a fundamental it's a view that

I take are there interesting opportunities in Hong Kong yeah they are interesting certain asset classes I think student accommodation it's interesting I think certain logistics or even data centers could be interesting are there interesting offices that we can buy and reposition into hospitality products I think that those are interesting things that we will look at well I just buy office for office I wouldn't in Hong Kong not now not now I mean unless I can get a super good price then I will so that's how I look at Hong Kong at this point in time I mean just for my investment perspective at least from my perspective so we will look at Hong Kong if we can

find good opportunities that we can deliver good returns I mean we do have LPs that are interested in some of those things so so let's see yeah so we have a team in Hong Kong looking at some of those opportunities yeah see read yeah you thanks for the question so maybe a couple of points first on the CV CV is a perpetual so to us having a CV is an important piece to build or read franchise a lot of people think of series right now potentially it means to an end to recycle no but actually to us you have to you have to take the view that this is a long term platform whatever you put onto it has to perform and to us this is a franchise the CV market

is emerging and in China it's it's it's going to draw a lot of attention if you follow the series market 73 series have been issued since what two years three years back raising a total of about two 20 billion already it's still in its nascent form it will serve as purpose in China we feel that we have the credentials the trite record the asset management capabilities to really enhance a series for us we start off with retail because that's our strongest asset class with the ascended merger we also have been managing a lot of business parks in the industrial parks in the future it is definitely viable for us to consider a second series

but our focus right now is to get our first read off first series off and do it well essentially we won't say no so first one it's a retail read we want it to do well we want it to trade well it's important because if you trade well you have strong investors following and he has an interesting cost of capital and then it creates a very nice platform for us to be able to inject a lot of our retail assets down the line it just takes time for us to get to where we are today because I mean just a number of regulatory approval that we need to get to but I'm happy that the team managed to get us to to this point yeah okay the last question are joys and across quite a number

of questions we only have time for one so the first one given fundraising is now taking much longer two years can we get a sense of the potential funds in a different stage stages of discussion in the two-year cycle and Drew okay thanks Roy yes the average is two years but obviously you get stuff that is shorter and some that is longer depending on the quality of your product timing of launch etc etc so as I mentioned earlier we've got a number of funds we are in the manufacturing stage of and we think that that constitutes a pipe of about two billion more than two billion in FUM (Funds Under Management) in the next 12 months so those are ACP2 credit platform two that's already in soft marketing

right we've got that out in the market we've got a self storage fund that is due for a second capital raise on the back of a very successful first deployment where we have deployed over 85% of the first raise so that's coming very soon as I mentioned we are working with Suchard and the SC team on a Asia-Pacific living product and then there's a there's a DC product that I think we want to look at as well we've have a new DC head of funds that has just joined us recently again that's something we can work closely with ourselves and also with with SC capital around so I think these are the four interesting very thematically aligned Asia-Pacific flagship funds that we are

definitely working towards and if we execute well in the next 12 months you'll see all four of these come to market or at least we'll be able to share where we are in in in discussions on where we are in the manufacturing process okay thank you Andrew she couldn't any final comments before we wrap up. No I but building up the private funds business it requires us to invest invest in the capabilities and the teams and the relationship the LP I want to sound you know I mean essentially a lot of ground work has been done you should see a lot more things happening in the costs of the the next couple of months I mean just want to stress that I mean the V it's space took us to many

years to get us where we are today give us a bit of time you know it's about you know building up the teams and building up the relationship and the track record I mean raising the body capital it's a different SKU set and that's a lot of time that we spend and people need to view comfortable that you are doing the right things as alignment of interest you can show good views and that takes time and I think that you know we should have a lot more interesting news to share with you in the in the coming months yeah thank you okay thank you Chikun thank you Jans for and for all your time for spending the last one hour with us thank you for your support for CLI that's refreshment behind you so please help yourself with that to our viewers online thanks once again and we'll see you at an all-nix update bye bye